MacGyver wrote:
So that would mean anything that increases Homocysteine would help here which means:
- Taking Methionine
- Taking things that spare Methionine:
- Cysteine (might increase urea excretion so not the best idea initially) (hello NAC btw, although that would contradict your experience, maybe exactly because it increases the urea burden EDIT: NAC lowers homocysteine, see my post below)
- Carnitine which is methionine + lysine
- Taking SAMe
- Taking things that spare SAMe:
- Creatine
- Increasing absorption of Methionine from food via a properly working digestive system:
- Digestive enzymes to break down protein
- Stimulate bile so endogenous enzymes are released
- Increasing stomach acid if low since bile is released in response to correct acidity of food
- SAMe is know to increase bile...
- Eating a protein rich diet, preferably meat
- Making the CBS pathway function normally since it otherwise might be a drain on homocysteine as well
Hi MacGyver,
Thanks for a very interesting post!
I just want to check if I got you right:
• If one responds positively to TMG and/or choline, the methionine (folate/B12) pathway is working correctly and it’s safe to use TMG/choline as desired without worrying about diverting the methylation flow away from the B12/folate pathway.
If so, I wonder what you would make of my story:
• At first, I had a wild and overwhelming reaction to low dose methylfolate in conjunction with high dose B12. My methylation was so over the top that I even induced a textbook serotonin syndrome with these two supplements alone.
• After a few months I started requiring megadoses of methylfolate just to stay away from undermethylation, and sometimes even that didn’t do the trick.
• I ended up in some kind of middle ground where B12/folate (mega mega doses) keeps me reasonably methylated and functional, but no way near the initial bursts of energy that I experienced and not enough to make me feel like myself.
• Adding TMG to this mix gives me a nice, subtle sense of well-being and increased physical stamina, but it doesn’t increase my potassium need—and it seems to
decrease the half life of B12, suggesting that TMG induces a folate deficiency (since folate increases B12 half life according to Freddd)
• Adding moderate to large amounts of choline or lecithin gives me back that WILD overmethylation feeling with elation, crazy energy bursts, and insatiable hypokalemia. Thus, lecithin initially seemed like a life saver but turned out to cause the same trouble as TMG: it made B12 much less effective.
So, I’m seeing positive ”primary” effects from both TMG and lecithin/choline, but that seems to happen at the expense of the folate/B12 pathway (deficiency symptoms of both vitamins surface).
This would contradict your hypothesis, even though it makes total sense to me in theory.
* * *
Finally, I've just tried SamE for the first time. 200 mg made me quite agitated but it definitely potentiates and works synergistically with folate/B12—sort of brings them back to life—and does induce some hypokalemia (which for me is always a sign of fine methylation), so I will stick to it, possibly in half the dose. After adding SamE I’ve also been able to reduce my 30 mg methylfolate dosage to 25 mg.
Does this give you any clue as to what’s going on?
Grateful for input!