"The Secrets of COVID `Brain Fog' are Starting to LIft" WIRED Jul 1, 2022

[Violeta]

Does all this mean the brain fog is caused by a virus in the brain and we have to figure out on our own how to clear out the virus so that it doesn't activate CCL11?

 

[Violeta]

I am trying to find more about CCL11.

CCL11 enhances excitotoxic neuronal death by producing reactive oxygen species in microglia

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26184677/

In this study, we found that activated astrocytes release CCL11

whereas microglia predominantly express the CCL11 receptor.

Our findings suggest that CCL11 released from activated astrocytes triggers oxidative stress via microglial NOX1 activation and potentiates glutamate-mediated neurotoxicity, which may be involved in the pathogenesis of various neurological disorders.

Edit in: While NF-κB has been implicated in activation of astrocytes in neurodegeneration

 

[Violeta]

What do you think about this study by Martin Pall? Do you think what he's talking about would affect microglia?

Will vitamin D supplementation ameliorate diseases characterized by chronic inflammation and fatigue?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987710003981

Chronic NF-κB activation has been supposed as a key event in chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and many other better-defined pro-inflammatory diseases. Knowledge about the impact of deficiency vitamin D on chronic NF-κB activation could open a new disease approach.

Whereas NF-κB activation leads at first to a pro-inflammatory immune response, later on a vitamin D-dependent anti-inflammatory response ensues.

Binding of the active vitamin D metabolite 1,25(OH)2D3 to vitamin D receptor (VDR) yields a transcription factor which represses NF-κB activation, and additionally modulates and down-regulates adaptive, but enhances innate immune responses, and improves redox balance, thus counterbalancing inflammation on multiple levels.

However, this built-in late counterbalance against inflammation works only when stores of calcium and 25(OH)D3 are abundant.

Therefore a connection between lowered vitamin D-metabolism and persistent NF-κB activation, augmented nitrosative-oxidative stress, redox imbalance, chronic inflammation, and concomitant fatigue can be postulated.

 

[pattismith]

Minocycline?

I don't know if this 2022 case report was already on PR:

Oral Minocycline Challenge as a Potential First-Line Therapy for Myalgic Encephalomyelitis and Long Covid-19 Syndrome (acmcasereport.com)

and this 2021 study

Oral Minocycline Therapy Improves Symptoms of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, Especially in the Initial Disease Stage - PMC (nih.gov)

 

[Rufous McKinney]

We shall see if one glass a day for a week or however long the bottle lasts does anything for me.

I've been beefing up my antioxidant anthocyanin consumption....(at least purple food is ripe and in season presently)...and more Omega 3s...

I think its helping me some.

 

[Wishful]

Does all this mean the brain fog is caused by a virus in the brain and we have to figure out on our own how to clear out the virus so that it doesn't activate CCL11?

No, it means that the immune response may have been activated by a virus--in the brain or elsewhere, or by some other immunogen--but for some reason the immune system stays locked in that state, even after the trigger is gone.

I believe that reducing viral infections can reduce some of the ME symptoms, but in general won't eliminate them permanently.

 

[Violeta]

No, it means that the immune response may have been activated by a virus--in the brain or elsewhere, or by some other immunogen--but for some reason the immune system stays locked in that state, even after the trigger is gone.

I believe that reducing viral infections can reduce some of the ME symptoms, but in general won't eliminate them permanently.

Did you see that one person in this thread said that antivirals relieve symptoms of brain fog? That means it's possible to stop the immune response. However, antivirals only work while being taken. So if we could figure out a way to clear them from the brain, there may be consistent improvement.

 

[Violeta]

I've been beefing up my antioxidant anthocyanin consumption....(at least purple food is ripe and in season presently)...and more Omega 3s...

I think its helping me some.

I've been eating about a pint of blueberries a day for 5 days now and I am seeing a huge improvement. This morning I was able to read longer paragraphs in medical studies than usual.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I've been eating about a pint of blueberries a day for 5 days now and I am seeing a huge improvement. This morning I was able to read longer paragraphs in medical studies than usual.

I decided to avoid putting any dairy on the berries to try to get more berry action. I am sort of working on teh gut again and hoping my eyes might benefit, also.

 

[Alvin2]

What do you think about this study by Martin Pall? Do you think what he's talking about would affect microglia?

Will vitamin D supplementation ameliorate diseases characterized by chronic inflammation and fatigue?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987710003981

Chronic NF-κB activation has been supposed as a key event in chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and many other better-defined pro-inflammatory diseases. Knowledge about the impact of deficiency vitamin D on chronic NF-κB activation could open a new disease approach.

Whereas NF-κB activation leads at first to a pro-inflammatory immune response, later on a vitamin D-dependent anti-inflammatory response ensues.

Binding of the active vitamin D metabolite 1,25(OH)2D3 to vitamin D receptor (VDR) yields a transcription factor which represses NF-κB activation, and additionally modulates and down-regulates adaptive, but enhances innate immune responses, and improves redox balance, thus counterbalancing inflammation on multiple levels.

However, this built-in late counterbalance against inflammation works only when stores of calcium and 25(OH)D3 are abundant.

Therefore a connection between lowered vitamin D-metabolism and persistent NF-κB activation, augmented nitrosative-oxidative stress, redox imbalance, chronic inflammation, and concomitant fatigue can be postulated.

As my body can't create vitamin D i have to take a high dose for life (on medical advice) and its tested regularly, i now have a fairly high level and yet my cognition is continuing to deteriorate

 

[Violeta]

As my body can't create vitamin D i have to take a high dose for life (on medical advice) and its tested regularly, i now have a fairly high level and yet my cognition is continuing to deteriorate

So sorry. So many things do let us down.

 

[Wishful]

Did you see that one person in this thread said that antivirals relieve symptoms of brain fog?

But do antivirals relieve symptoms for the majority of PWME? If not, then it's an individualistic response and not THE ANSWER to ME. Cumin worked really well for me, but isn't the answer for anyone else.

Someone might benefit from eliminating one specific virus, but still have extra symptoms due to some other virus or other microbial infection. Also, actually eliminating a specific virus can be difficult and expensive, risky due to side-effects, and not guaranteed to succeed. If you knew for sure that you had a specific virus and the treatment was $100k and guaranteed to work and would improve your physical capacity by 12%, you could make an informed decision. Blindly taking expensive antivirals seems like a poor gamble.

 

[Violeta]

But do antivirals relieve symptoms for the majority of PWME? If not, then it's an individualistic response and not THE ANSWER to ME. Cumin worked really well for me, but isn't the answer for anyone else.

Someone might benefit from eliminating one specific virus, but still have extra symptoms due to some other virus or other microbial infection. Also, actually eliminating a specific virus can be difficult and expensive, risky due to side-effects, and not guaranteed to succeed. If you knew for sure that you had a specific virus and the treatment was $100k and guaranteed to work and would improve your physical capacity by 12%, you could make an informed decision. Blindly taking expensive antivirals seems like a poor gamble.

I don't know how many people with ME would have their symptoms relieved from antivirals.

My point is that this is reversible, but we will most likely have to figure out how on our own.

There are other ways to deal with viruses than expensive antiviral drugs.

 

[Wishful]

My point is that this is reversible, but we will most likely have to figure out how on our own.

ME overall is reversible, as proven by temporary remissions. Unfortunately, there's presently no way to know what treatment will work for a given individual. Antivirals are not the only treatment for this. None of my temporary remissions were due to treatments with strong antiviral action. While antivirals might be effective treatments for a few people, I don't consider them a strong candidate for working for most PWME.

 

[Violeta]

A New Zealand blackcurrant supplement called CurraNZ which has 35% anthocyanins appears to be cheaply available on the UK Amazon.

This supplement appears to be similar to the New Zealand blackcurrant supplement used in the mouse study, which led to a 48% reduction in CCL11.

So this supplement might be worth experimenting with, to see if it improve brain fog.



In the study, gave mice orally 10 mg/kg of a blackcurrant anthocyanin product called Currantex 30, which contains 30% total anthocyanins (this supplement is no longer available, but a similar product called CurraNZ, which is slightly stronger at 35% anthocyanins, is available to buy).

This mouse 10 mg/kg of Currantex 30 works out to a human dose of 0.81 mg/kg, which for a 75 kg person is an oral dose of around 60 mg. One CurraNZ capsule contains 300 mg, so one capsule would be 5 times the equivalent human dose in the study.

@Hip, have you tried any anthocyanin food or supplement?

And thanks for finding this interesting and helpful information.

 

[hapl808]

I tried just eating a spoonful of real black currant jam every day. Very tasty, not too sickeningly sweet, not sure it did anything, but figured why not try that.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

recently, I discovered Acai.

and feeling a strong need for something nutritious...I have been having it regularly. And I feel guilty about this.

Is it really sustainable? Do humans EVER do the right thing? And I can tell its not, because its a frozen product.

but trying to survive in this world of commercialization of everything is really a challenge.

I think the ACAI has helped me feel better. I have a few fresh berries with it, and trying to not include any dairy and I don't eat granola or bananas.

One brand, I just read: is doing it right: purchased only from indigenous cooperatives.

Sambazon.

https://www.peacefuldumpling.com/sustainable-acai

 

[Hip]

@Hip, have you tried any anthocyanin food or supplement?

I have not, but an ME/CFS patient tried a blackcurrant anthocyanin supplement at high doses, and reported no benefits.

 

[SleepingGirl]

I'm currently trying a supplement with blackcurrant anthocyanin in it after seeing this post when it was first posted, though I could only find one that also has some other stuff mixed in with it and is apparently for eye support. I've only been taking it for a few days and it only has 50mg for each pill, so far it seems to have done nothing.

 

[Alvin2]

I have not, but an ME/CFS patient tried a blackcurrant anthocyanin supplement at high doses, and reported no benefits.

Also no dice on my end yet, though i have to admit that this is the most delicious ME/CFS treatment i have ever tried