Staph vaccine to treat CFS??

[swede]

The lancet: 1935 9 Feb: Dr C.E Dolcman:Staphylococcus Toxoid.
The Lancet 1935: Adresses and orginal articles ” Staphylococcous toxoid”

Yes could be .. I will read them later, but it has been developed with TSST-1 toxin and if You search on the internet for staphylococcus toxoid vaccines, You will find the lab who owns it I have it, but I have so much ..it take time to find it

 

[swede]

Yes You got it correctly

 

[swede]

.. And as You see.. it can be supplemented with current toxin, as long You know the bacteria strain, you know what toxin to be added. Concidering this has been one on the market by many, last one was Staphypan, Pharmaceutical industry appears to be a great opponent...

 

[swede]

By the way... have You been tested from this toxins in Your blood?

 

[Hip]

I just found another new vaccine in the development pipeline that may replicate the effects of Staphypan on ME/CFS:

Staphylococcus toxic shock syndrome toxin 1 (TSST-1) vaccine
Developed at the Medical University of Vienna, Austria.

The successful phase I clinical trial of this new TSST-1 vaccine is detailed in this study.

Olaf Zachrisson et al performed a content analysis study (full paper here) on the original Staphypan vaccine, and Table 2 of the study (shown below) details the ingredients he found in Staphypan:

Looking at the notable ingredients present in Staphypan, you see that there are the following:

Toxoids in Staphypan:
Alpha toxin
Enterotoxin A​

Enterotoxin B
Toxic shock syndrome toxin 1 (TSST-1)

Other Notable Staphypan Ingredients:
Staphylococcus aureus cell wall components
Staphylococcus epidermidis entire cell walls

I have tried an alpha toxin vaccine, an enterotoxin A, B and C vaccine, and a Staphylococcus cell wall vaccine.

The only thing I have not yet tried is a toxic shock syndrome toxin 1 vaccine, which the Medical University of Vienna have developed. This Vienna TSST-1 vaccine seems to be well tolerated, and has passed phase I clinical trials, but presumably it will be several years before this vaccine becomes available.

I did do some searching for possible immunomodulatory effects the TSST-1 might have on autoimmune diseases, but did not find anything.

 

[nandixon]

I have tried an alpha toxin vaccine, an enterotoxin A, B and C vaccine, and a Staphylococcus cell wall vaccine.

The only thing I have not yet tried is a toxic shock syndrome toxin 1 vaccine...

@Hip, look in Table 3 of the Zachrisson paper. The patients had no serological response to TSST-1 from baseline to endpoint. So that may be indicating it's not likely to do anything.

Note also that Zachrisson did not provide any test results for the entire cell wall from S. aureus...

Can you find out if the Staphylococcus cell wall vaccine you tried contained the entire (i.e., intact) cell walls, or just cell wall components?

 

[swede]

There is a lot of anatoxin /toxoid studies published as failures , they do not make it true the FDA or other drug administration ,sorry to disappoint You. Since it is the hole cell wall of S. eipermidis,+ fibrin- binding protein + and what You write above. TSST-1 = Toxic shock syndrome... Those toxins S. aureus produce is the most dangerous one especially enterotoxin A and B ... is a cause of autoimmunity, particularly enterotoxin B and enterotoxin and enterovirus do have something in common.... what do You think that could be?... But are You tested for this toxins in Your blood?...
there will be many, just check immlab John something ...no one makes it true by government agencies.. thats why I believe the best is to write and request that they shall produce Staphypan because it has been withdrawn by the wrong reason. They thought that Thiomersal should be prohibited in vaccines ..its not

 

[nandixon]

By the way... have You been tested from this toxins in Your blood?

If you want to get someone's attention, you can use the @ symbol followed by the person's username, like this: @swede or @nandixon

I haven't been tested for the toxins. I don't think that's likely to be important for the way the Staphypan vaccine may be working in ME/CFS.

The idea is that Staphypan is working in a general immunostimulatory way (and activating any pathways that need to be activated in the process). A prior or existing staphylococcus infection wouldn't be important in that regard.

 

[swede]

The entire cell wall of S. epidermis and S. auerus cell wall components and entire cell wall " It cannot be excluded that alpha-toxin antibodies to some extent are partly contributing to the clinical effect we observe after treatment with SB However, we consider it more proable that alpha-toxin is primarily a marker of degree of immunization...Enterotoxin are superantigens which act as potent oligoclonal T-cell activators, resulting in the massive realize of cytokines (Lee2oo1)Moreover it has recently been shown that modified enterotoxin proteins, devoid of their superantigenic properties, may still express antigenic determinants that could be the target of neutralising antibodies Mice injected with mutant forms of enterotoxin proteins showed a significantly higher survival than mice immunized wth bovine serum albumin."
Do You have the book Page 7 in Paper II there is a lot written..
So how was that vaccine You tried?

 

[swede]

@nandixon it is very important to have those toxin in Your blood, because Staphypan just neutralize toxins...

 

[nandixon]

@nandixon it is very important to have those toxin in Your blood, because Staphypan just neutralize toxins...

No, it's acting as an immunostimulant:

It cannot be excluded that alpha-toxin antibodies, to some extent, contributed in part to the clinical effect we observed after the SB treatment. However, we consider it more probable that alpha-toxin antibodies are primarily markers of the general response capacity of the immune system.

 

[swede]

@nandixon.. Ok what about those Enterotoxin which S Auerus produce.. Enterotoxin are superantigens which act as potent oligoclonal T-cell activators, resulting in the massive realize of cytokines isn't that import to care of?

 

[nandixon]

@nandixon.. Ok what about those Enterotoxin which S Auerus produce.. Enterotoxin are superantigens which act as potent oligoclonal T-cell activators, resulting in the massive realize of cytokines isn't that import to care of?

When Staphypan is made, the enterotoxins and any other toxins are rendered harmless (by treatment with formaldehyde) and are just simply antigens.

I'm starting to think that you may be believing that Staphypan works in ME/CFS because you think there is an ongoing staphylococcal infection.(?)

Staphypan was used as a treatment for staphylococcus infections in the past, before antibiotics came into widespread use (or perhaps in certain specific situations like your boils), but that is not what it's being used for in ME/CFS.

 

[swede]

@nandixon I have an ongoing infection and it has been used for treatment of on going infections until 2005.

 

[nandixon]

@nandixon I have an ongoing infection and it has been used for treatment of on going infections until 2005.

You need to find an antibiotic, then, that will work. I believe a brand new class of antibiotics was discovered just last year, so maybe that will work for you when it comes on the market.

 

[swede]

@nandixon I am Going to Georgien to try bacteriophage, there is no antibiotic working against MRSE

 

[Hip]

@Hip, look in Table 3 of the Zachrisson paper. The patients had no serological response to TSST-1 from baseline to endpoint. So that may be indicating it's not likely to do anything.

I think if we are viewing the vaccine in terms of its designed purpose to combat Staphylococcus infection by boosting antibodies that disable Staphylococcus toxins and antigens, then this serological response (an increase in antibody levels against these toxins and antigens) would seem important.

However, whether those increased antibody levels might also be involved in the ME/CFS-ameliorating effect of the vaccine is hard to say.

Some of the Staphylococcus toxoids have immunomodulating effects just on their own, independent of the antibodies generated against them. For example, enterotoxin B binds to the CD28 receptor, and this receptor has been linked to autoimmune disease (more info at the bottom of this post).

And this study indicates how alpha toxin potently induces nitric oxide (although I am not sure if alpha toxoid will have the same effect); this study shows how the Russian Medgamal Staphylococcus alpha toxoid vaccine corrects the immunodeficiency caused by coxsackievirus B3 infection; and this study indicates alpha toxin interacts with ADAM10 receptor (aka: CDw156 or CD156c), although I am not sure what this receptor does.

This study indicates that alpha toxin is a strong IL-17 inducer.

So some of the Staphylococcus toxoids are like drug compounds, that interact with specific receptors. Though I could not find any receptor that TSST-1 interacts with.

Of course, some of the Staphylococcus antigen antibodies might also have effects in the body over and above their neutralizing effect on the antigens — effects that could have an ME/CFS-ameliorating action.

Can you find out if the Staphylococcus cell wall vaccine you tried contained the entire (i.e., intact) cell walls, or just cell wall components?

Details of that cell wall vaccine I tried are give here; it only says:

Active ingredients
Complex of the peptidoglycan and teichoic acids, microbial cells recovered from the phenol-water extraction.
Excipients
Phenol (0,2 ± 0,05)%.

 

[swede]

@Hip thank You for Your information, its s interesting what You mention about the enterotoxin , that enterotoxin B binds to the CD28 receptor, and this receptor has been linked to autoimmune disease (more info at the bottom of this post). ... That this was known in the 50's, actually already in 35 according to published article in The Lancet from 1935 : The question is what do the enterotoxin and the enterovirus has in common? Me my self believe this toxin is the reason of the neurological diseases caused by the enterovirus ...
The lancet: 1935 9 Feb: Dr C.E Dolcman:Staphylococcus Toxoid.
The Lancet 1935: Adresses and orginal articles ” Staphylococcous toxoid”

 

[Hip]

Me my self believe this toxin is the reason of the neurological diseases caused by the enterovirus

You think that Staphylococcus enterotoxin combines with enterovirus to create neurological disease? Is there any particular reason why you think this?

 

[swede]

@Hip Yes there is , I will explain this later..