Ron Davis Research Update

[Ben H]

Hi guys,

Ron Davis Presents A Brief Research Update

Ronald W. Davis, PhD, Director of OMF's Scientific Advisory Board, was invited to bring greeting to our friends in Norway participating in MillionsMissing Stavanger. Dr. Davis provided a brief research update that truly expresses his optimism.

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B,

@Janet Dafoe (Rose49) @AshleyHalcyoneH @marilynbsg

 

[Ben H]

"So far we have been unable to show that it is not correct...and that is how you do science".

Yep. Yep. Yep.


B

 

[Celandine]

Very encouraging! I wonder, my understanding is that the metabolic trap explains energy deficiency/fatigue/PEM, but does it also have the power to address the autonomic symptoms that go along with ME? If so, could anyone explain how, in simple terms, it does this?

 

[Goldfinch]

Oh wow, this is so very hopeful. Just what I needed to see today. Thanks for sharing this.

 

[Jessie 107]

I am can't watch, could someone please summorise?

 

[Hopeful1976]

Oh wow, this is so very hopeful. Just what I needed to see today. Thanks for sharing this.

Me too @Goldfinch

 

[roller]

I am can't watch, could someone please summorise?

• working on a number of other biomarker techniques
• all the pathways that seem to be disrupted
• biggest effort try to understand cause
• then chance to cure
  
  
• major hypothesis = metabolic trap
• they couldnt prove it wrong
• its probably correct
• for most of the patients
• so they continue
  
  
• researchers all over the world are looking
• major collaborations

 

[Jessie 107]

• working on a number of other biomarker techniques
• all the pathways that seem to be disrupted
• biggest effort try to understand cause
• then chance to cure
  
  
• major hypothesis = metabolic trap
• they couldnt prove it wrong
• its probably correct
• for most of the patients
• so they continue
  
  
• researchers all over the world are looking
• major collaborations

Thankyou, all sounds hopeful.
Thought that the biomarker was already sorted.

 

[ljimbo423]

Here is the transcript for anyone that is interested-


Hello greetings from California I'm Ronald Davis at Stanford University.

We work extensively on ME/CFS. We've recently published a paper on a biomarker that may be used to diagnose patients, however we are also working on a number of other biomarker techniques which we might find necessary to use in combination to distinguish the patients from other diseases.

We're also working extensively on all the pathways in patients that seem to be disrupted. This effort is to hope to find new treatments that may help the patients. However I think our biggest effort is to try to understand the cause of the disease. If we can understand the cause of the disease we have a chance of curing it.

Our major hypothesis currently is called the metabolic trap. So far we have been unable to show that it's not correct and that's the way you do science. We are continuing to work on this but more of the evidence now is that it is probably correct.

When we are convinced that this is the correct problem at least for most of the patients we will then work on how to get you out of the trap.

So I'm very optimistic that what we're doing as well as researchers all over the world are extensively working on this in major collaborations and I'm hoping that we'll be able to come up with better treatments and hopefully a cure for this disease.

Thank you.

 

[Remi]

Thank you, Jim! The metabolic trap is the way your body gets in a state of hypometabolism?

 

[ljimbo423]

Thank you, Jim! The metabolic trap is the way your body gets in a state of hypometabolism?

Sorry, I don't know. I haven't researched the "metabolic trap" much at all. Maybe somebody else can field your question. Anybody else know the answer to this question?

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Sorry, I don't know. I haven't researched the "metabolic trap" much at all. Maybe somebody else can field your question. Anybody else know the answer to this question?

See the activities of Dr. Nancy Klimas, and Dr. Phair.

Overview below, plus threads in PR on these topics.

https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2...on-the-molecular-basis-of-me-cfs-at-stanford/

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Our major hypothesis currently is called the metabolic trap. So far we have been unable to show that it's not correct and that's the way you do science. We are continuing to work on this but more of the evidence now is that it is probably correct.

But still: having a hard time integrating the Mechnical Theory, with the: Metabolic Trap theory.

If we could: flip our switch back (see Klimas' work, on Gulf War Syndrome)....to "normal setting: from ALERT CRISIS SETTING" ...how have we: solved that mechanical, inflammed lower brain stem, upper spinal issues...?

Glub Glub

 

[ljimbo423]

But still: having a hard time integrating the Mechnical Theory, with the: Metabolic Trap theory.

If we could: flip our switch back (see Klimas' work, on Gulf War Syndrome)....to "normal setting: from ALERT CRISIS SETTING" ...how have we: solved that mechanical, inflammed lower brain stem, upper spinal issues...?

Glub Glub

It sounds like you are thinking the metabolic trap and CCI are both present in ME/CFS. Is this what you are saying?

 

[Rufous McKinney]

It sounds like you are thinking the metabolic trap and CCI are both present in ME/CFS. Is this what you are saying

Pondering this in a relatively vegetative state at the moment. If the ME metabolic trap theory holds water, then how would: the Mechanical Theory interface with it? If it turned out that BOTH are true, or if, so far, it appears that at least a subgroup (jen, jeff, etc) improved via mechanical.

This: untrapped them, perhaps?

Maybe as a direct result of decompressing the compressed areas: this immediately allowed a whole suite of other things to resolve, at least, thats what we've seen so far, small sample, etc. Enabling body to untrap itself.

I think I'm captured in a circular argument...so: I'll cease speculating for now. Should re-review Klimas and Phair.

meanwhile: Please Help!!! SOS

 

[Judee]

Thank you so much for all you are doing, Dr Davis.

Please make sure you are taking care of yourself too!!!!! The ME/CFS community needs you.

 

[ljimbo423]

Pondering this in a relatively vegetative state at the moment. If the ME metabolic trap theory holds water, then how would: the Mechanical Theory interface with it? If it turned out that BOTH are true, or if, so far, it appears that at least a subgroup (jen, jeff, etc) improved via mechanical.

This: untrapped them, perhaps?

Good questions, I think with multiple hypothetical answers. Too much work for this brain rate now.

I'm still fascinated by Jeff's viral titers going back to normal after fixing his CCI. He had multiple high viral titers for a long time (I think for 3 different viruses) and they all went back to baseline after his surgery!!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

He had multiple high viral titers for a long time (I think for 3 different viruses) and they all went back to baseline after his surgery

this "seems like" - it infers- its all swollen up and squeezed- alters so many body processes , so the high viral titers stopped, too. Maybe they aren't "real". maybe they are just: a response of this tissue, producing a false signal, or mis-interpretation of the signal. Tissue sends message, body interprets that message. Its interpreting "wrong" because- the squeeze is altering all this.

During Acute last July, my nose is: receiving smell input, and missreading the result. No, thats Italian dinner downstairs, but it smells like Benzene. This phenomenon subsided after several weeks, but was acute for a while.

 

[nandixon]

"So far we have been unable to show that it is not correct...and that is how you do science".

@Ben H, I haven't seen anything presented so far that shows they've ever used controls in their experiments who are genetically matched to the patients for numbers of functional IDO2 alleles (i.e., either 0, 1 or 2). Until that's done any differences @HTester and the group are seeing would have to be considered normal.

Perhaps trying to use genetically matched controls hasn't been too feasible previously but now that they apparently have a convenient way of testing for the IDO2 SNPs it's going to be a critical requirement to do so before anyone should get excited about the findings.

 

[Murph]

Not yet proving the metabolic trap is incorrect seems a low bar to clear with the limited data they have. With everything I have heard about how that hypothesis was made I'm very skeptical and would want strong evidence. Ron saying it is likely to be true seems extremely premature.