Reason why women come down with CFIDS more than men?

[Murph]

I've been losing muscle since 2010.

One possibility is your body is breaking down muscle to create amino acids to feed the krebs scycle. Have you considered supplementing with AAs? My doc (a cfs specialist) put me onto them and they've made a big difference to me.

 

[heapsreal]

Do you know if they actually measured testosterone, etc., to see if it was high -- or even at normal levels -- in the male patients? I ask because mine was low when last tested -- 2-3 years ago -- and I've been losing muscle since 2010.

Also curious if they measured 3-methylhistidine levels...?

Problem with testing testosterone is that its low in most men with chronic illnesses. And medication guys may take for their chronic illnesses can contribute to low testosterone.

But going by research in hiv men using testosterone and anabolic steroids, they did improve immune function and increased life expectancy and reversed severe muscle wasting. There are reports of this before arvs were even used. So just for good health in men we need to have optimal testosterone levels as its involved in so many processes.

 

[heapsreal]

One possibility is your body is breaking down muscle to create amino acids to feed the krebs scycle. Have you considered supplementing with AAs? My doc (a cfs specialist) put me onto them and they've made a big difference to me.

Cfsme is a catabolic condition. Even though many cfsers are overweight, i think most have had muscle wasting and gained bodyfat and i think its more than just inactivity this is from??

 

[perovyscus]

The iron study did not correct for luteal cycle, and was with ten women, 5 of which had a hysterectomy in the patient group. That is not a matched control. The men were fine, so it is irrelevant. I am pretty sure there is a better study that says some women are iron-deficient but that one is designed poorly.

It is estradiol. If it was not autoimmune, there would be more cases of horizontal transmission. More than effectively zero.

 

[dannybex]

One possibility is your body is breaking down muscle to create amino acids to feed the krebs scycle. Have you considered supplementing with AAs? My doc (a cfs specialist) put me onto them and they've made a big difference to me.

Yes, that's what RichVank said back in 2010. I've supplemented with various protein powders, undenatured whey, amino acids, etc.. Some I can tolerate, others not (like BCAAs for some reason, which should be helpful). So once I can get back to a decent doc, I'm going to see if I can get more tests done to see if heavy metals are inhibiting the krebs cycle (mine drops off at a-ketoglutarate), or if I'm missing some mineral cofactors.

Also it's possible some infection could be interfering as well. Anyway, thanks for your reply -- that's great that you're finding some benefit from them @Murph. Do you mind my asking what brand/form?

 

[dannybex]

Thanks @heapsreal -- my medicaid doc actually prescribed testosterone patches a year or so ago, but they stunk to high heaven with 'inactive' ingredients, so I never really gave them a decent try. I've been re-thinking that though, so I appreciate the reminder.

 

[dannybex]

Cfsme is a catabolic condition. Even though many cfsers are overweight, i think most have had muscle wasting and gained bodyfat and i think its more than just inactivity this is from??

That may indeed be true, but I think it was the Naviaux study that found the muscle wasting (elevated 3-methylhistidine) only in the male patients and not the women.

 

[heapsreal]

That may indeed be true, but I think it was the Naviaux study that found the muscle wasting (elevated 3-methylhistidine) only in the male patients and not the women.

I think testosterone is more important at reducing muscle wasting in men then women. At a guess for women optimum estrogen and progesterone may be anabolic for them??

Trt/testosterone replacement therapy, ive followed for a long time now. It appears that most guys dont respond well to transdermal patches, creams and gels, poor absorption and risks of accidentally transferring it to others like children.

It seems the gold standard for trt is weekly injections between 100 to 150mg per week, the most common dose to get guys in the upper third of the normsl range. Weekly injections keep blood levels more stable, i mention this as its common practice for drs to use bigger doses every 2 to 3 weeks which causes T levels to fluctuate greatly and increases side effects and general wellbeing etc

 

[Murph]

Yes, that's what RichVank said back in 2010. I've supplemented with various protein powders, undenatured whey, amino acids, etc.. Some I can tolerate, others not (like BCAAs for some reason, which should be helpful). So once I can get back to a decent doc, I'm going to see if I can get more tests done to see if heavy metals are inhibiting the krebs cycle (mine drops off at a-ketoglutarate), or if I'm missing some mineral cofactors.

Also it's possible some infection could be interfering as well. Anyway, thanks for your reply -- that's great that you're finding some benefit from them @Murph. Do you mind my asking what brand/form?

I take hydrolysed whey protein isolate. dyamtize iso 100 is my preferred brand most of the time (was recommended by my doc) altho I'm not super happy that it contains artificial sweetener.

 

[heapsreal]

Thanks @heapsreal -- my medicaid doc actually prescribed testosterone patches a year or so ago, but they stunk to high heaven with 'inactive' ingredients, so I never really gave them a decent try. I've been re-thinking that though, so I appreciate the reminder.

Might be of interest?

Abstract
The immune response was assessed in 13 competitive bodybuilders self-administering anabolic-androgenic steroids and ten competitive bodybuilders not administering these drugs. Laboratory assessment included the number and relative distribution of T-cells, T-helper/inducer cells, T-cytotoxic/suppressor cells, activated T-cells, lymphocyte transformation to the mitogens, pokeweed mitogen (PWM), phytohemagglutinin (PHA), Concanavalin-A (CON-A), Staphylococcus aureus Cowan strain I (SAC), serum immunoglobulins, and natural killer (NK) activity. There were no significant differences in T-cell subsets among steroid users and non-users, but lymphocyte transformation studies revealed that the anabolic-androgenic steroid-using group had enhanced proliferative ability to the B-cell mitogen, SAC, in comparison to non-bodybuilding controls. NK activity was significantly (P less than 0.05) augmented in the anabolic-androgenic steroid users but not in the non-using bodybuilders. Serum immunoglobulin levels, in particular IgA, were significantly (P less than 0.017) lower in the steroid-using group. Four of 13 steroid users and three of eight non-steroid-using bodybuilders had detectable antinuclear antibodies. These studies indicate that 1) anabolic-androgenic steroid use as practiced by contemporary athletes is a potent modulator of immune responsiveness and 2) autoantibodies are prevalent in strength-trained men even in the absence of anabolic steroid use.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2674590

 

[TrixieStix]

Fact: The genetic difference between men and women is 15 times greater than between two men or two women. In fact, it’s equal to that of men and male chimpanzees.

In short: the genetic difference between my husband and I is equal to the genetic difference between my husband and a male chimpanzee. Makes sense to me!

 

[anni66]

I also heard an interview with Jarred Younger where he was focussed on how leptin tracked symptoms. He mentioned that women have base levels of leptin that are much higher than men. Dr. Chia has also mentioned that men tend to recover under his protocols more often than women. Maybe there is more parity, but perhaps many men are just mild and undiagnosed...

Leptin plays a role in the development of insulin resistance which kicks off a lot of inflammatory processes.

 

[pattismith]

Fact: The genetic difference between men and women is 15 times greater than between two men or two women. In fact, it’s equal to that of men and male chimpanzees.

In short: the genetic difference between my husband and I is equal to the genetic difference between my husband and a male chimpanzee. Makes sense to me!

Hopefully, the genetic difference between a female chimpanzee and my husband is still bigger than between my husband and me