Phospholipids

[pemone]

Update: I found a company that has a diagram on it and makes it.

http://shop.nutrasal.com/PhosChol_900_Capsules_p/phos900-100.htm

PPC is actually 1,2-dilinoleoylphosphatidylcholine. The good doctor may not quite know what he is talking about becos if it is true then PPC actually has linoleic acid bound in the C1 and C2 positions of the molecule. If you strip away these 2 fatty tails then it is not PPC anymore. Also I suspect the process for stripping them is prohibitively expensive to market, that is why all pcholine products out there contain fats.

You NEED the fatty tails to penetrate the cells and incorporate the pcholine into the cells, w/o the tails it won't work. Someone correct me on this.

Thank you for actually listening to the video and for trying to help me figure it out.

This is what a phospholipid looks like when fully assembled:

http://unsig11cellmembrane.wikispac...agram1.jpg/164811335/PhospholipidDiagram1.jpg

The two "tails" are fatty acids (i.e., saturated, monounsaturated, or polyunsaturated fats).

I ended up having to research this further on my own. What I think BodyBio is selling is called gylcerophosphocholine (GPC). Here is a diagram for you to compare against the original:

http://catalog.designsforhealth.com/GPC-Flyer-Final.pdf

Pay attention to the graph in the left column in middle of page.

Please notice how all supplements selling phosphatidylcholine include a disclosure about fat content. The actual supplement is highly viscous, as you would expect from something that contains a lot of fats. The supplements that are liquid GPC are not viscous at all. And that reflects the fact that the fats are not there. And those GPC supplements have no fat listed as an ingredient either.

In my research in the literature, what I found is that glycerophosphocholine actually has definite advantages as a way to get phosphate and choline into the brain. Typical of the research I found was this one that shows GPC had superior benefits when compared with other dietary cholinergic precursors such as choline and phosphatidylcholine, which is referenced also in the flyer above:
Amenta F, et al. Treatment of cognitive dysfunction associated with Alzheimer's disease with cholinergic precursors. Ineffective treatments or inappropriate approaches? Mechs Ageing Dev 2001;122:2025.

I spoke to a biochemist and he told me the reason for this is that the GPC has a neutral charge and crosses the blood brain barrier.

So, my summary:

1) BodyBio is correct that they are selling a version of the phospholipid with the two fatty acid tails removed. However, they make it sound like they are doing something difficult when in fact they are selling GPC which is a commonly available supplement. BodyBio throws in additional phospholipids with the fatty tails also removed.

2) There is in fact some good evidence that GPC better delivers choline and the substrates for phospholipids to the brain than phosphatidylcholine does. This is due to the negative charge carried on PPC, which makes it harder to cross the blood brain barrier.

 

[Valentijn]

Phosphatidylserine makes me feel quite a bit worse.

 

[pemone]

Phosphatidylserine makes me feel quite a bit worse.

You shouldn't take that. The body can use it as a signal to kill the cell. Most phospholipid supplements specifically exclude the serine.

 

[Peyt]

I have been experimenting with different forms of Choline in the past few months, I even bought the one in the video posted in this thread as well as at least 5 other types. They all made me feel good mentally. I felt happier and less agitated, but I also felt heavy and inflammation especially around my tummy and breast areas... After 2 months I noticed I gained about 5 lbs.!

Anyways, today I was talking to my ND, and he said Choline gets eaten up by certain bacteria in the gut and produces something called TMAO which contributes to the symptoms that I described, here is a video that has a description:
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/carnitine-choline-cancer-and-cholesterol-the-tmao-connection/

So my question to you and my Dr.(who could not answer but said he will look into it) is: is there a topical form of Choline I can use? like a cream or pomade that does not go in the gut and therefore is not eaten up by the bacteria... he thought it was a great idea but could not find a product..... Apex makes a product that has PC in it, but it also has PS which I can't tolerate.... anyone know of any? or can I have a compounding pharmacy make it topically for me?? any ideas?? thanks

 

[Gondwanaland]

is there a topical form of Choline I can use?

Why not mix some powder you have with a squirt of body lotion to try it out?

 

[Peyt]

Why not mix some powder you have with a squirt of body lotion to try it out?

hmm... interesting!

 

[Horizon]

I felt better on daily soy lecithin, my cognitive abilities improved. I had to stop though because I am male and found it was giving me "man boobs" and I did not like the estrogen effects from soy. I don't even know what it was but sunflower lecithin does not do the same thing for me that soy lecithin did.

 

[MAF14]

I felt better on daily soy lecithin, my cognitive abilities improved. I had to stop though because I am male and found it was giving me "man boobs" and I did not like the estrogen effects from soy. I don't even know what it was but sunflower lecithin does not do the same thing for me that soy lecithin did.

I never tried Soy lecithin due to the phytoestrogens, always stuck with sunflower while I took it and never noticed much difference honestly.

 

[Horizon]

I never tried Soy lecithin due to the phytoestrogens, always stuck with sunflower while I took it and never noticed much difference honestly.

Yeah, there are many reasons to avoid soy but somehow it did something for me that sunflower doesn't. I think I will have to dig deeper into the quantity of phospholipids in both products and see if there is a difference there and if not I really dont know why one works and the other does not.

 

[keenly]

Update: I found a company that has a diagram on it and makes it.

http://shop.nutrasal.com/PhosChol_900_Capsules_p/phos900-100.htm

PPC is actually 1,2-dilinoleoylphosphatidylcholine. The good doctor may not quite know what he is talking about becos if it is true then PPC actually has linoleic acid bound in the C1 and C2 positions of the molecule. If you strip away these 2 fatty tails then it is not PPC anymore. Also I suspect the process for stripping them is prohibitively expensive to market, that is why all pcholine products out there contain fats.

You NEED the fatty tails to penetrate the cells and incorporate the pcholine into the cells, w/o the tails it won't work. Someone correct me on this.

So is this a good supplement or not?