OAT, PLEASE INTERPET

[Jimbo39]

Thank you so much for sharing your experience of what appears to have been a journey spanning years.

I began to think that my problem with magnesium actually reflected an inability to supply sufficient calcium. Sure enough, once I was supplementing calcium, I could tolerate the magnesium again.

Could you tell me what the mag/cal connection is? Many mag supplements come with cal. I've always been told that calcium is bad as it can cause neuro excitotoxcity. There's a phase tossed about in the natural health community: "If glutamate is the gun, calcium is the bullet."

Somewhere around this time Freddd started writing about refeeding syndrome and this tied in with what I had been thinking about nutrient depletion.[/QUOTE

Very informative read. So supplying a nutrient/vitamin/mineral can cause, in some cases, a critical depletion in others. This seems to be at the core of you having to increase/eliminate other cofactors.

To cut what is already a long story short, adding more biotin opened the floodgates. This had now become my most limiting nutrient.[/QUOTE

Currently I am taking 50 mg daily in divided doses.

This is a hundred times the dose in Pure Encapulations B-Complex! I'm thinking I may have to take cofactors separately to determine what I may be lacking. What kind of B2 do you take and how much?

 

[Jimbo39]

Does your doc even know how to interpret this test?

I don't know. He's an integrative doc and seems pretty knowledgable. He didn't think candida was a problem.

BTW, How is your Zolf tapering going? I am down to 15 mg Paxil (from 40 mg). It's really hard to cut 10%/mo when your dealing with tablets. I asked for liquid but insurance doesn't cover it ???

 

[Jimbo39]

Zoloft. Stupid auto correct. What in the world is Zolf?

 

[alicec]

Could you tell me what the mag/cal connection is? Many mag supplements come with cal. I've always been told that calcium is bad as it can cause neuro excitotoxcity. There's a phase tossed about in the natural health community: "If glutamate is the gun, calcium is the bullet."

Calcium and magnesium work together in a kind of yin-yang relationship. Here is an article about the relationship.

Calcium and magnesium together in supplements reflects the idea that the two work together though it is a mistake to think that there is a fixed ratio that will benefit everyone.

Still it is a better idea than the pushing of high doses of calcium in isolation that has been promoted by the medical profession for things like osteoporosis. This is an example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

We have lost sources of magnesium from our diets (magnesium deficient soils, purified water supplies) so there is increasing imbalance, made worse by the widespread promotion of calcium supplementation. This in turn often results in the anti-calcium push that you refer to.

Knowing about the need for balance I was always careful to ensure I had plentiful calcium in my diet when I realised that high dose magnesium was so helpful to me. I was a bit concerned about the excitatory stuff (I am fairly sensitive to glutamates) so wasn't willing to supplement with calcium.

Eventually though things caught up with me. With so much magnesium on board, I really needed to supplement calcium also.

There has been a recent thread discussing this.

Unfortunately there is no good rule of thumb - common sense and trial of error should guide supplementation of these two minerals I think.

What kind of B2 do you take and how much?

I have tried all forms. Currently I am taking 2-4 X 25 mg FMN sublingual. I'm still working out the best dose.

I definitely get a much better response to the sublingual FMN compared with swallowed FMN or riboflavin.

 

[Chocolove]

Which book would you recommend I read first?

"ADRENAL FATIGUE SYNDROME: RECLAIM YOUR ENERGY AND VITALITY WITH CLINICALLY PROVEN NATURAL PROGRAMS" by Dr. Lam in 2012.
https://smile.amazon.com/Adrenal-Fa...ALITY+WITH+CLINICALLY+PROVEN+NATURAL+PROGRAMS

I just happened to have some colloidal silver from when my Dad had a bacteria infection. I added a teaspoon to 100 ml water in my sinus washer bottle and squirted into my nose.

EEEEk! I hope you researched that before you tried it. I've read that doctors refer to the nose as the cone of death....you don't want to mess around with an experiment there.... too close to the brain.

 

[caledonia]

I don't know. He's an integrative doc and seems pretty knowledgable. He didn't think candida was a problem.

BTW, How is your Zolf tapering going? I am down to 15 mg Paxil (from 40 mg). It's really hard to cut 10%/mo when your dealing with tablets. I asked for liquid but insurance doesn't cover it ???

Okey dokey on your doc.

As far as Zoloft (Zolf I'm down to 10.3 mg, starting from 150mg 4 years ago. I thought I might be in the homestretch and checked in with the Surviving Antidepressants forum. They said I needed to get down to 0.5mg. So that's going to take me another 5 years. :-(

I'm using a Gemini scale to weigh each pill, but that's starting to get harder to do, the smaller the pieces get. Eventually I plan to go to a liquid system. There is a method to dissolve the pills in water, but I haven't quite figured it out yet.

 

[Jimbo39]

EEEEk! I hope you researched that before you tried it. I've read that doctors refer to the nose as the cone of death....you don't want to mess around with an experiment there.... too close to the brain.[/QUOTE

No I didn't research it. Sometimes I can be pretty stupid. However, my sinuses have cleared and I no longer have sinus headaches. Still waiting for my diffuser and oils.

I think I read somewhere that toxins can go directly into your brain via the olfactory glands. Is there any truth to this? I've noticed less inflammation and sinus problems since I've had my teeth taken care of.

 

[Jimbo39]

Calcium and magnesium work together in a kind of yin-yang relationship. Here is an article about the relationship.

I read the article but it doesn't really say how cal and mag work together. Is there a chemical bond between the two? If so, it would explain why cal is needed and why mag is not not working as well as it once did (cal depletion). Like @Hip Ive noticed a craving for dairy. I can't drink milk (casein) but do fine with cream and ghee. I've been adding about 1/4 cup of cream and a good serving of ghee in my oatmeal.

In this yin-yang relationship, it appears cal is the yang competing with magnesium, manganese, copper and iron. Over supplemention can lead to depletion and in my case neuronal excitotoxcity.

I have tried all forms. Currently I am taking 2-4 X 25 mg FMN sublingual. I'm still working out the best dose.

This is 2-4 times the amount I'm taking. It seems some of us need a far greater amount than the dosage recommended by FREDDD.

 

[Chocolove]

@Jimbo39 "I've noticed less inflammation and sinus problems since I've had my teeth taken care of."
I had an uncle who was a neurosurgeon and he was very diligent about his tooth care. He told us that there was a lot of brain damage from dental infections as they can easily spread to the brain which resulted in some of his business.

Supposedly, according to one tip I read, for TIGHTER GUMS: Add 5-6 drops of magnesium oil to a wet toothbrush, brush as normal and spit; no rinsing or toothpaste is required. People who use this regularly experience tighter gums, less plaque, and less translucency to their teeth. You can add the magnesium oil to your toothpaste or mouthwash.

 

[alicec]

I read the article but it doesn't really say how cal and mag work together. Is there a chemical bond between the two?

It explains how they are paired minerals, often with opposing reactions which balance each other (eg calcium causes muscle contraction, magnesium muscle relaxation etc), or alternatively, the action of one is required for the action of the other (magnesium is necessary for the ATP driven membrane pumps which control the movement of calcium in and out of cells). Each influences the uptake of the other in the gut.

Magnesium is also an important part of bone structure - about 60% of the body's magnesium is stored in bone and it regulates many aspects of bone related metabolism (especially the action of vit D).

A number of studies have shown that deficiencies of one can affect the action of the other or that excessive supplementation of one can cause deficiency of the other.

They don't bind to each other - they are both cations in the body and these would repel each other.

 

[Jimbo39]

Add 5-6 drops of magnesium oil to a wet toothbrush, brush as normal and spit; no rinsing or toothpaste is required. People who use this regularly experience tighter gums, less plaque, and less translucency to their teeth. You can add the magnesium oil to your toothpaste or mouthwash.

Interesting. Magnesium it appears is so important to our bodies. Have you heard of oil pulling? You swish oil (coconut, sesame, ect) in your mouth and appearantly it pulls toxins from gums or cavities. I tried it for a while but didn't have the patience to do it for the recommended 20 minutes. Plus there's the gag factor.

 

[Jimbo39]

@alicec Do take a certain magnesium/calcium dose or just trail and error? How do you know when your lacking?

I've titrated potassium, magnesium, niacin, and folate and upped my B12 dose: methyl B12 (Jarrow sublingual)-2500 mcg; ab B12 (Anabol Naturals Dibencoplex sublingual)-4000 mcg. It doesn't seem like much but it's been a milestone for me. Noticeable effects: mental clarity (almost a buzz) and less social anxiety. Need to keep an eye on B2, B6 and biotin tho I'm not sure what to watch for.

 

[alicec]

Do take a certain magnesium/calcium dose or just trail and error? How do you know when your lacking?

I started taking magnesium quite a few years ago, mainly to help with muscle pain/ twitching etc and also came to appreciate its calming effects. At first I just tried oral magnesium chelate - maybe around 800 mg daily. This seemed to keep the muscle pain at a tolerable level.

Later I tried topical magnesium - pretty much all over the body - and halved the oral dose. At times I have cut back but tend to get a achier so just stick to this dose now.

It wasn't until I experienced problems with tolerating oral magnesium and became sensitive to B12 that I started considering calcium supplementation (I do eat quite a few high calcium foods).

Adding calcium helped me tolerate magnesium again plus helped to get B12/folate working again. I worked out dose mainly based on restoration of B12 response. In other words I didn't really have any symptoms that could obviously be attributed to calcium deficiency, except perhaps a bit of muscle cramping/spasm.

I have varied the calcium dose depending on various other things I have experimented with in trying to sort out the B12 problems. Currently I am taking a lot - 3 X 700 mg daily. I am taking a lot of other minerals that appear to have limited the B12 response also. I see it as a temporary measure and plan to cut back.

I'm not sure when and to what level that will be but it will be B12 response that will determine it.

It doesn't seem like much but it's been a milestone for me. Noticeable effects: mental clarity (almost a buzz) and less social anxiety

People who response to B12/folate (some don't) do seem to get a lot of benefit so it is worth persisting with.

 

[Jimbo39]

@alicec On the B12 oils thread someone mentioned that B12 has anti inflammatory properties. Do you know the mechanism behind this?

 

[Jimbo39]

@Chocolove I just got my diffuser and oils. Could you tell me how much oil you use per 100 ml water?

 

[alicec]

B12 has anti inflammatory properties. Do you know the mechanism behind this?

As far as I know it is due to improvement of glutathione status (ie a downstream effect of stimulating methionine synthase) and to reaction with free oxygen or nitrogen radicals.

 

[Gondwanaland]

improvement of glutathione status (ie a downstream effect of stimulating methionine synthase

It lowers homocysteine wonderfully (METHYL B12 that is).

 

[Jimbo39]

@Gondwanaland Im trying to address high BP, blood sugar, and cholesterol. I'm suspecting (more like guessing) that my liver function may related to this. I know my liver is stressed because of EBV, sinus infection, gut inflammation, etc.

You seem to be pretty well informed about the liver. Can you suggest: what type of tests I should take; detox protocol; liver support; etc?

Thanks

 

[Chocolove]

I just got my diffuser and oils. Could you tell me how much oil you use per 100 ml water?

@Jimbo39
Extremely little. Just a couple of drops of each (and every listed) essential oil. They have very concentrated plant actives.

I would sit for an hour or so gently inhaling the vapor while on the computer or reading at a distance of 1-2 feet with the vapor aimed in my direction. Too much - being too close, results in sneezing. Then let it go for a few hours and try it again and see how you feel. It you feel water logged, back off. Wait until you feel better to try again. You may only need to do this sporadically over 2-3 days to feel immensely better.

You don't want to over-saturate yourself or home with water, so a small diffuser is best I find. Too much humidity grows mold in the home - something you really don't want.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Gondwanaland Im trying to address high BP, blood sugar, and cholesterol. I'm suspecting (more like guessing) that my liver function may related to this. I know my liver is stressed because of EBV, sinus infection, gut inflammation, etc.

You seem to be pretty well informed about the liver. Can you suggest: what type of tests I should take; detox protocol; liver support; etc?

Thanks

My advice is start with the basics. If cholesterol and BP are high, avoid too much beef, eat more fish, and lots of fresh unprocessed plant foods. I have been finding salmon (even farmed!) very anti-inflammatory.

I only have access to basic tests. The problem is that doctors don't seem to know how to interpret them.