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ME/CFS metabolic question

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NelliePledge

Senior Member
Messages
807
Wishful said:
If you rarely use a muscle, then do something that strains it, you damage the cells, and t-cells activate to clean up the debris, meanwhile other chemicals released cause the growth of more/stronger muscle cells. So, my leg muscles were fine with the strain and motion of cycling, but when I strained them past those limits, such as by climbing a ladder, that caused tissue damage. There must be at least two subgroups of ME/CFS, because I don't seem to have uncommon exhaustion from activity.

I don't think a ketogenic diet can drop the blood glucose level to absolutely zero, so that's not an issue. Just shifting a significant part of ATP production from glucose to ketones should make a significant difference to symptoms if the pyruvate mechanism inefficiency was critical. If it is critical, it's certainly not obvious about it.
Click to expand...
How does Post Exertional Malaise affect you?
 
frozenborderline

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
Yeah, I've gotten a little better at reading studies, but now I want to ground myself with some general science basics, which might be easier in the long run/more helpful than only reading studies about my illness, without even understanding the krebs cycle!
 
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Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,751
Location
Alberta
For debored13, read the parts of papers that you think you can follow, and ignore--for now--the parts intended for PhD's. Follow links to terms you don't understand. You don't need a PhD in chemistry to follow ME/CFS papers; you just need to understand some basic relationships. For example, understand that a catalyst changes the rate of reactions without being consumed in the reaction. You don't need to know that it involves covalent bonds or that bond angles are important, it's just a 'thing' that you need to make a reaction happen at the necessary rate. Other parts of biochemistry can also be understood without PhD level chemistry.
 
frozenborderline

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
Yeah I know I don't need a phd in chem to understand! but I'd love to have even high school or basic undergraduate level chem understanding! I don't even have that
 
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Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,751
Location
Alberta
NettlePledge: my PEM is low mental energy, perceived muscle aches, elevated temperature. My usual PEM entries in my diary are 'lousy' or 'very lousy' or 'bleh'. It usually starts around 24 hrs after a trigger. It's harder to figure out when it ends...
 
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Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,751
Location
Alberta
I'm trying to think whether my high school or university chemistry has been important in understanding medical papers, and I don't think it really has been. Maybe there'd be a few more instances where I'd have to look up words, or have less of an understanding of the importance of calcium, for example, but most of the details of chemical reactions just aren't critical for following medical papers.

If your goal is to solve the mystery of ME/CFS and synthesize a drug, yeah, you'll need to be good at chemistry.
 
frozenborderline

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
I mean i know that sounds insane but it kind of keeps me going. I am a humanities person and i feel that if I could get over a certain hump with chemistry it would start to make sense for me. I have read and understood a decent amount of pharmacology for years, but it's kind of just reciting facts--now i want to understand the deeper structural aspects...
I have access to these resources at school... well maybe i can convince someone better with this stuff to help me. I know some really talented chemists
 
U

unicorn7

Senior Member
Messages
180
Wishful said:
If you rarely use a muscle, then do something that strains it, you damage the cells, and t-cells activate to clean up the debris, meanwhile other chemicals released cause the growth of more/stronger muscle cells. So, my leg muscles were fine with the strain and motion of cycling, but when I strained them past those limits, such as by climbing a ladder, that caused tissue damage. There must be at least two subgroups of ME/CFS, because I don't seem to have uncommon exhaustion from activity.

I don't think a ketogenic diet can drop the blood glucose level to absolutely zero, so that's not an issue. Just shifting a significant part of ATP production from glucose to ketones should make a significant difference to symptoms if the pyruvate mechanism inefficiency was critical. If it is critical, it's certainly not obvious about it.
Click to expand...

I recognize what you're writing. When my problems started and I was still pretty mild, I first noticed that I got PEM from activities that I wasn't used to doing. I now unfortunately have exhaustion form every activity:confused:

I don't think the blood glucose drops to zero, the body always wants to keep the bloodsugar steady. It could mean that there isn't much glucose in the places where you need it (in the cells) ánd I can imagine that if a pathway is partly blocked that it works a bit better if there is enough substrate (in this case glucose) available.

I don't do very well on a low carb diet, so I could be biased:D I am eating a diet low in sugar/fructose, that is mainly to keep my bowel (and bacteria) healthy. I do eat carbs, but not in excess. I try to eat the healthy ones: fruits, vegetables, quinoa, buckwheat, rice.
 
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