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Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
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I feel uncomfortable when people start to compare other's who have different beliefs to Hitler. You can't compare the two situations, This does not mean what has happen isn't distressing as it is. Maybe his opinions were evolving just as many of ours have over the years..
Barb C.:>)
http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/the-imprudence-of-comparing-to-hitler/page-2/Have we watered down the nature of this history so much or are these comparisons truly sincere? If someone is well aware of what happened in Nazi Germany, and they proceed with such an accusation, it had better be founded with reasonable facts or it is nothing more than a rude and hateful insult. Certainly, it is the rightful nature of our free republic to allow such speech. The right of those to employ this type of rhetoric is without question. But the imprudence of this misuse of history cannot be denied.
However, if there are reasonable and factual comparisons to be drawn with Hitler or the Nazi party, they should be done with the utmost care, if not avoided altogether. We are to learn from our history in order to avoid the mistakes of the past. If we demean the truth of our history, we begin to dissolve the severity of these mistakes. This is something we cannot afford.
So, instead of employing self-destructive comparisons and emotional distractions, we should debate issues on the grounds of fact and merit. Otherwise, neither we nor those with whom we disagree will benefit.
Its very easy for some to say we should be all moving on from the Wessely stuff from the past, but some of us such as myself are clearly still being very affected evidenced due to the biased, due to the views he's got out there and the impacts he's made by them on governments.. ones who arent even in his own country.
Whatever the failings of the NHS mental health services, no one gets 'sectioned' for a belief. The substantial checks and balances provided for under the Mental Halth Act ensure that there has to be some evidence of a potetnial for harm to self or others. Of course there are elements of M.E/CFS that could be wrongly interpreted as evidence of self neglect or self harm, and the question then is what is an approapriate intervention, but to characterise the whole complex process of detaining someone under the Mental Health Act as 'sectioned for false illness belief' is to profoundly misrepresents what actually happens.I have a friend who got sectioned because of having "false illness beliefs" (having ME). Sophia wasn't the only one.
Isn't there a danger of embracing a fallacy that's based on reversing cause and effect in this case. We don't know what SM's physical and psychological health was, other than the estimation of her mother - if rather than the 'stable' position the mother perceived there was actually a slow decline was already underway, then 'before' and 'after' the inpatient interlude may have no relationship being treated as inpatient.Sophia couldn't be "fixed" after her sectioning. That was the last straw for her.
Let me start out by saying I don't think what anyone wrote was done intentionally to hurt but I want to say something that I think is important.
We have to be very, very careful when comparing someone to Hitler. Please keep in mind that some of us are Jewish or have family and friends who are also Jewish. This has nothing to do with how I feel about Wessely. I don't particularly like what he stands for. But comparing him to Hitler only serves to trivialize what happened during the Holocaust.
Barb C.
Firstly, there are perhaps two (no more) cases where a coroner has allowed that M.E was a contributory element to a death. However even in these cases it is not clear that the Coroner intended M.E to be understood as being a direct organic cause, rather than a complicating psychiatric condition. The list of dead M.E/CFS suffers that is maintained on one internet site, makes no distinction on the bases of cause of death. Everything from accident to age related death is potentially included. We have no idea what role M.E/CFS may play in premature death, other than there appears to be an increased risk of suicide.Those they have died from this disease and they have altopsied.. dorsal root inflammation has often been found in those cases.
I don't understand the relevance. You had a bad experience in A&E is that right ? But that didn't lead to you being subject to the provisions of the Mental Health Act did it ?I would like to know under which category you place - picked up in the street, collapsed in A & E - 3 junior docs and psycho diagnosing "all in your mind". No checks and balances there I can assure you.
(IVI @ 327)
Is that your opinion, or do you have some shareable evidence ? What medical research has been refused ? Where has any viable research project been put forward in the UK and refused funding ?As someone who lives in Britain, and has worked in support groups helping ME sufferers directly, I can say that there is plenty of medical abuse and neglect of ME patients here, and the psychiatric model of ME is directly responsible for both this abuse and neglect, and the refusal to fund adequate medical research for over a generation.
Evidence ? People become suicidal for all sorts of reasons and no one is immune (as far as anyone can tell) from endogenous depression. Having M.E/CFS doesn't stop you from getting a mental illness, irrespective of how the world treats you.Some ME sufferers do become suicidal but this is a direct consequence of the way they have been perceived and treated.
And these arguments are where ? Digging about in the guts of something often means dealing with "highly offensive" stuff, - best thing is to hold your nose and get on with it.I find arguments that try to push responsibility for this appalling situation back onto the individual sufferer highly offensive.
As someone who lives in Britain, and has worked in support groups helping ME sufferers directly, I can say that there is plenty of medical abuse and neglect of ME patients here, and the psychiatric model of ME is directly responsible for both this abuse and neglect, and the refusal to fund adequate medical research for over a generation.
Is that your opinion, or do you have some shareable evidence ?
What medical research has been refused ? Where has any viable research project been put forward in the UK and refused funding ?
Blaming everything on psychiatry is just 'bunker thinking'. There hasn't been research because there has been no researcher with a valid project to fund - and that's not because of psychiatric propaganda - it's beause there's been no conception of how to pursue the problems that M.E/CFS presents.
There is an issue in th UK as to why no adequate epidemiology has been undertaken, but even that has its roots in the difficulties of definition.
Some ME sufferers do become suicidal but this is a direct consequence of the way they have been perceived and treated.
Evidence ? People become suicidal for all sorts of reasons and no one is immune (as far as anyone can tell) from endogenous depression. Having M.E/CFS doesn't stop you from getting a mental illness, irrespective of how the world treats you.
I find arguments that try to push responsibility for this appalling situation back onto the individual sufferer highly offensive.
And these arguments are where ? Digging about in the guts of something often means dealing with "highly offensive" stuff, - best thing is to hold your nose and get on with it.
Is that your opinion, or do you have some shareable evidence ? What medical research has been refused ? Where has any viable research project been put forward in the UK and refused funding ?
Blaming everything on psychiatry is just 'bunker thinking'. There hasn't been research because there has been no researcher with a valid project to fund - and that's not because of psychiatric propaganda - it's beause there's been no conception of how to pursue the problems that M.E/CFS presents. There is an issue in th UK as to why no adequate epidemiology has been undertaken, but even that has its roots in the difficulties of definition.
Evidence ? People become suicidal for all sorts of reasons and no one is immune (as far as anyone can tell) from endogenous depression. Having M.E/CFS doesn't stop you from getting a mental illness, irrespective of how the world treats you.
And these arguments are where ? Digging about in the guts of something often means dealing with "highly offensive" stuff, - best thing is to hold your nose and get on with it.
IVI
As someone who lives in Britain, and has worked in support groups helping ME sufferers directly, I can say that there is plenty of medical abuse and neglect of ME patients here, and the psychiatric model of ME is directly responsible for both this abuse and neglect, and the refusal to fund adequate medical research for over a generation.
Some ME sufferers do become suicidal but this is a direct consequence of the way they have been perceived and treated.
I find arguments that try to push responsibility for this appalling situation back onto the individual sufferer highly offensive.