DoggerFisher
Senior Member
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- 152
Ah. I don't have a tame physician.It does. Here in the US, too. But very worthwhile.
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Ah. I don't have a tame physician.It does. Here in the US, too. But very worthwhile.
Once we've got some more experience with the Ketones (which we are working on now, with diet variations and use of a precursor) I will post extensively about it. He took Ketones during a crash and it eliminated his PEM pretty immediately. We have to repeat that experiment to see if it was a one-time effect or possibly a new strategy for eradicating PEM.
As some research has shown problems with glycolysis, ketogenic diets would make sense as it effectively bypasses this. naviaux' s study showed that there was a cohort who had problems with fat metabolism, ( mainly female) so it may not work for these people. Thyroid has impacts for fatburning, and it may be that treating hypothyroidism may enable ketosis.Sure you can loose weight with low fat, But , fat is essential, without it we die.
Even protein restriction can result in weight loss, but it's unsustainable. It will result in malnutrition, then death.
With carbohydrate restriction, the body adjusts to make its own.
More and more studies are being done with ketogenic diets for a variety of conditions, especially neurologic ones.
In ME, there are many neurologic symptoms.
I believe there is potential for a carefully guided ketogenic diet to aid ME patients.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321471/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4617125/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4709725/
Sure you can loose weight with low fat, But , fat is essential, without it we die.
Even protein restriction can result in weight loss, but it's unsustainable. It will result in malnutrition, then death.
With carbohydrate restriction, the body adjusts to make its own.
More and more studies are being done with ketogenic diets for a variety of conditions, especially neurologic ones.
In ME, there are many neurologic symptoms.
I believe there is potential for a carefully guided ketogenic diet to aid ME patients.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321471/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4617125/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4709725/
As some research has shown problems with glycolysis, ketogenic diets would make sense as it effectively bypasses this.
I'm a female, and this is true for me; I did not respond to Ketones or a keto diet at all. I seem to process carbs better than fats. Interestingly, I also tend to feel better after I eat, while he often feels worse. I wonder if that is limited to us, or if that is common between men vs women.naviaux' s study showed that there was a cohort who had problems with fat metabolism, ( mainly female) so it may not work for these people.
Btw, Naviaux reported that women with ME/CFS have problems with beta oxidation i.e. making energy from fat. Before keto this wasn't an acute problem for me. After long-term keto my ability to extract energy from fat collapsed and I developed an intractable feeling of hypoglycaemia despite actually being mildly pre-diabetic (another consequence of long term low carbing for me was development of insulin resistance; prior to that diet my blood glucose was always normal). Having to depend on gluconeogenesis to maintain blood glucose level is another source of stress and energy depletion for the liver because the process costs you ATP. When my condition became severe my energy would drop to literally zero and I wasn't able to even stand up if I went without eating for more than a few hours. In other words, my ability to fast was completely obliterated. Given the documented problems with fat metabolism in women it's questionable how many here would be able to tolerate this fat-based diet.
The only explanation I have is that some people might have more or less dysfunction in the pyruvate/carb cycle than with the cycle that relies on ketones. This would explain why many don't do better on a keto diet - if they are low in some of the necessary precursors, they might be just as inefficient at using ketones as the are using pyruvate. Those who do better on a keto diet probably have a more efficient cycle and all the right precursors.
Could it be that people who are feeling worse are not in full Ketosis? Without sounding ignorant, does everyone use Keto urine strips to monitor ketones?
I am officially off the Keto diet after giving it my best shot for nearly three months.
Since keto diet is diuretic, one needs to up the salt intake (& other electrolytes) e.g. by drinking vegetable broth (boil the vegetables with salt to taste, filter and discard the solids. You can add meat to the reciepe and eat it.I was just concerned about my adrenals
Since keto diet is diuretic, one needs to up the salt intake (& other electrolytes) e.g. by drinking vegetable broth (boil the vegetables with salt to taste, filter and discard the solids. You can add meat to the reciepe and eat it.
No it doesnt starve the gut.. you can eat fibre on ketoMaybe because it is not resulting in many people getting better.
I have followed the diet you describe for a couple of years and while I did see a modest benefit initially, over time this disappeared. Eventually I realised that such a diet starves the gut microbiota and can't be recommended in the long term.
The addition of moderate amounts of carbohydrate in the form of starchy tubers as well as resistant starches makes more sense.