@Freddd fantastic thread.
I've been taking 5mg MeCbl injections 3x a day and that seems to be the point where I don't feel a noticeable difference.
I have noticed though that my methylfolate needs have gone from 15mg -> 60mg in a pretty short period of time and the normal dose response I have been getting seems to last less time.
I don't necessarily mind taking whatever amount I need, but the fact that it seems like it's having less and less effect as the dose requirements go up has me a bit puzzled. You'd think I needed TONS of potassium a day at 60mg of folate, but a modest amount is seemingly been more than enough.
FWIW also taking 10-20mg AdCbl a week and 1000mg L-Carnitine Fumarate a day.
Hi Bluelude1,
I am feeling much better and able to start to do a few things. It was a surprise. I have had to switch between Metafolin to Quatrefolic when one no longer works. A week at most on the one I wasn't using seems to clear up the specific pathway it uses, another kind of bottleneck.
As I heal, pathways change. I had to change to change from a minimal B-complex to a B-right type b-complex, with 400 mcg of Quatrefolic might be doing something, or larger amounts or more various vitamirs of b-vitamins might be needed becasue of my age, or various pathways have changed. In any case methylation increased and I feel much better. I and others have also had l-carnitine xxxx that we each needed changed, for me, when I got my copper closer back up to mid-range from years of deficiency, to needing a different caritine and then it changed again to any of the varieties of l-carnitine appears to work
I have had a major change over the last 2.5 years, micronutrient amounts of Lithium orotate titrating from 5mg to 20 mg. According to some obscure papers I read TransCobalamin Receptor-Li which supplies the CNS with cob[ii], the catalytic form, can be blocked by fluorides until more lithium can clean it out.. Now, when it is partly done, still improving the homeostasis of minerals and other things which have never worked right for most of my life.
I used to take 30 mg of MeCbl daily as 3x10mg sc. Now I take 7.5mg sc injection once a week, and sublingual AdoCbl 10-mg sublingual, instead of 210mg weekly of injected mecbl and the same 10mg of adocbl weekly. I no longer have radically unsteady serum potassium. I no longer get gastroparesis needing Reglan twice daily to be able to eat.
With the injections previously, an awful amount of B12 was excreted in the urine within an hour. Now, it appears that NONE at all comes out in the urine for at least 12 hours and then a whole surge comes out, after a weekly injection, NEVER happened like that before until recently. In that period I can sometimes feel a surge of cob[ii] (6 stars] as it hits my brain.
The first time I tried the MeCbl I had 5 minute response sublingually. I and others have had 5 minute response to steak held in the mouth sublingually. I have wondered about that for 17 years. It would appear that TCR-Li forms in the oral mucosa in at least some places and grabs (Li, VERY REACTIVE, very low electronegative and fluorine is the most electronegative so the two bind strongly (high heat of formation). It appears that only more Li can clean the fluorine out of the TCR. In the meat the B12 is wrapped for delivery in TCR of some kind it appears as it can be delivered in the brain in 5 minutes.. The hapticorn (HTC1 formerly) is in the saliva and appears to be the transfer mechanism which is what it has always been said to do. I have not had much or any success in absorbing B12 by swallowing it. That doesn't appear to work for me.
A paper mentioned that TCR-Li also forms in the kidneys and appears to be an important function in retaining B12 in the body, picked up in the kidneys, stripped of ligand (cob[ii] maybe and returned to serum instead of urine. My eGFR has gone form 69% to 79% in 3 months with the TCR-Li or some form growing in my kidneys. My liver has continued to heal from the low copper antibiotic damage during the last 9 months. While these were healing very little else appeared to be doing so.
Lacking any of the micronutrients like copper, can lead to serious damage in special cells, like liver, kideney, nerves, etc..
Looking at public health information lithium is often gotten from water and food, if it is in the local water where things are grown. It is blocked by fluoride in the body from working. It was a precarious balance and then dental fluoride came to town and that was the end of normal B12 processing for me and a growing number of people. This hit mostly the CNS and the ability to retain B12. Without it serum half life of 20 minutes starts with absorption of injection and promptly excretes it. There were a few odd studies that came up with 12+ hours serum half life and no explanation. I wrote models of B12 pharmacokinetics, adopted from opioid serum models, taper plans for all kinds of meds, very different. As a consultant for group healthcare I designed and wrote various models for 30 years as well as HMO/insurance software for running the plans and handling claims.
It took me 2 years titrating from 5mg Li Orotate (tried Li tartrate too, no difference I could see) to build the TCR-Li to effective levels and it suddenly turned on one day. I have no idea how widespread TCRE-Li might be in the body. My experience is that my body doesn't absorb B12 in the gut. With AdoCbl I get more absorption in the mouth than ever before, enough to see in the urine AFTER 4-12 hours, again never experienced before that much or delay in the urine. It used to take 30mg of AdoCbl to see in the urine by the time I finished absorbing it. So the sublingual AdoCbl recharges the TCR-Li identically to the MeCbl but in the body it can cause methyltrap in place of mecbl of taken daily for instance. So my brain appears to get cob[ii] now, but my body mostly gets MeCbl and AdoCbl which work fine in the right places but does not replace cob[ii] without errors.
HYPOTHESIS - It appears that having a certain "level" of TCR-Li supplying cob[ii] prevents CyCbl, HyCbl and others thereby preventing methyltrap (demyelination for instance in brain and cord). U still get it in the body from time to time.
The BIG difference with TCR-Li is that it appears to control or affect control of homeostasis and I no longer have refeeding changing every time anything happens. It is much smoother and gentler. TCR-Li . Multiple people have been doing this for a couple of years and all have changes like this, but many variations.
If a person is taking basics and the deadlock quartet, and methylation isn't started satisfactorily secondary things; SAM-e, methionine, biotin, TMG, ribose, Vit D may get it started well. The CAUSES of all our bottlenecks are different and they change each time we fix something or exhaust a pathway.
One of the things that has happened, I now lack most of the hypersensitivity I used to have when I had insufficient TCR-Li, which also stores cob[ii] in the CNS and perhaps elsewhere. Now I can't tell the difference between 0 star and 5 star MeCbl, it's all the same to the TCR-Li.
An important thing to keep in mind. Each cell being made only fails ONCE, on the first thing that causes the cell not to be finished EXCEPT in certain cases where there is "hyper-methylation" by folic acid in epithelial tissues lacking B12 and methylfolate and they are faulty and sometimes become cancerous.
Failures look the same, lesions of some kind in most tissues like acne or angular cheilitis or split fingers. These can happen because of cob[ii] or mecbl lack, methylfolate lack, con[ii] or AdoCbl lack or lack of l-carnitine or other things, in order the things are used in growing cells. Copper, when it fails can do serious damage internally and exhibit the same appearance of lack of folate or B12 externally. And there are chains of things. Lack of copper can cause an iron and other metals bottleneck for instance.
Lithium appears to be key in balancing these things out and triaging the compartments for healing without necessarily triggering deficiency symptoms in other compartments such as those seen while titrating methylfolate from start to the last folate deficiency symptom or bottleneck, for me that is 45 mg daily and that was MCV. Then Copper deficiency made MCV go up faster and more than anything else. Learning ones patterns is hard enough. Lithium changes that pattern tremendously over some years, maybe faster.
If a person has enough TCR-Li they might experience that 5 minute absorption. Without it they appear to not experience that.
It took me about 5-6 years after starting MeCbl until I could no longer have 5 minute effect. It seems that I finally ran out of lithium. I was having a lot of dental problems (low copper, low boron) and having lots of fluoride treatments and likely the ground and water had less lithium than ever. Here the lithium all washed into the Great Salt Lake with flood irrigation of snow melt, very pure water.
It also appears that if cobalamin is seen in urine in an hour or two after an injection a person may not have sufficient TCR-Li where it is needed. Also lots of hypersensitivity to nutrients can be present.
Be well.