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I need help saving my life **** NO/ONOO

Hipsman

Hipsman

Senior Member
Messages
543
Location
Ukraine
Hmmm, haven't found any research on NO/ONOO-cycle published since 2013:
The NO/ONOO-cycle is a primarily local, biochemical vicious cycle mechanism, centered on elevated peroxynitrite and oxidative stress, but also involving 10 additional elements: NF-κB, inflammatory cytokines, iNOS, nitric oxide (NO), superoxide, mitochondrial dysfunction (lowered energy charge, ATP), NMDA activity, intracellular Ca2+, TRP receptors and tetrahydrobiopterin depletion. All 12 of these elements have causal roles in heart failure (HF) and each is linked through a total of 87 studies to specific correlates of HF. Two apparent causal factors of HF, RhoA and endothelin-1, each act as tissue-limited cycle elements.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3856065/
 
Mary

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,392
Location
Southern California
@Bobbi007 - I think it would be good if you changed the title of your thread to something having to do with NO/ONOO - such as "I need help with NO/ONOO" or "Need info re NO/ONOO". We all need help with our health so it's best to be specific about your question in the title of a thread. I think it can help get more responses from people who are knowledgeable about your concerns.

Here are some links which might be helpful for you:

https://www.healthrising.org/forums...ocol-for-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-me-cfs.434/

https://www.healthrising.org/forums...-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-me-cfs-summary.433/
 
B

Bobbi007

Messages
59
Thanks . I have too much vasodilation. I can’t do this anymore. I can’t. It’s too much. It’s all too much.
 
B

Bobbi007

Messages
59
Violeta said:
Martin Pall has a whole lot of info about peroxynitrite.

Can you tell us your worse symptoms?

https://www.clinicaleducation.org/resources/reviews/how-can-we-cure-noonoo-cycle-diseases-a-review/

Here it is again, see which format you find easier to read.

https://www.townsendletter.com/FebMarch2010/cureNO0210.html
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Do you have any idea why coming off my nitrate and CCB would cause MORE vasodilation???? Also my BP is going up since coming off the CCB which is odd because I have more vasodilation!

I can’t seem to do anything. Weak, heavy legs, movement intolerance, sitting up intolerance, talking intolerance, intolerance to everything except laying down it seems.
 
W

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,751
Location
Alberta
It's hard to know what to suggest when we all respond so differently to various factors. Peroxynitrite scavengers make my ME symptoms worse. I think the most people here can do is suggest some NO/ONOO- modulators that you could experiment to see whether they had any effect on your symptoms. It might even be that NO/ONOO- isn't even a factor in your symptoms. Going off nitrates might have an effect only indirectly.

I came across a list of peroxynitrite scavengers a few years ago, with their relative effectiveness. Cinnamon was one of the most effective. You could try one of those and see whether it has any effect, positive or negative. I haven't searched for anything dealing with vasodilation or other blood flow factors.
 
B

Bobbi007

Messages
59
Wishful said:
It's hard to know what to suggest when we all respond so differently to various factors. Peroxynitrite scavengers make my ME symptoms worse. I think the most people here can do is suggest some NO/ONOO- modulators that you could experiment to see whether they had any effect on your symptoms. It might even be that NO/ONOO- isn't even a factor in your symptoms. Going off nitrates might have an effect only indirectly.

I came across a list of peroxynitrite scavengers a few years ago, with their relative effectiveness. Cinnamon was one of the most effective. You could try one of those and see whether it has any effect, positive or negative. I haven't searched for anything dealing with vasodilation or other blood flow factors.
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Thank you. Interestingly enough- I was put on Imdur in 2019 due to chronic daily angina diagnosed as coronary artery spasm. A couple months later- the majority of my symptoms lessened or went away completely.

My symptoms started easing back in Sept of last year and were in full force by March. Chest pain, shortness of breath, PEM, etc. Then I went off my Imdur cold Turkey and was a mess with jerking limbs, twitches, sleep issues, severe heat intolerance (had mild/moderate heat intolerance previously), inability to do anything really-no more grocery stores, etc. but decreased chest pain.

Now I’ve just come off of my CCB (to test the waters and I have red hot feet when I stand, severe insane scary insomnia and sleep issues where it feels like my brain or heart are stopping, BM’s after everything I eat (I had IBS-C for as long as I remember).

So I do think they are related. But who knows

I believe a round the same time I also started vit d3, an omega profile, protein with BCAA’s and ubiquinol. All of which have been terminated for a while and are low once again. 🤷🏻‍♀️
 
W

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,751
Location
Alberta
Bobbi007 said:
I believe a round the same time I also started vit d3, an omega profile, protein with BCAA’s and ubiquinol.
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That's the problem with changing a lot of factors at the same time: which factor was responsible for the change in symptoms? If you try each factor individually, you might miss a cofactor, or there might be a hidden factor (you felt worse after taking xx, but it was actually due to some spilled water causing mold growth under a sink). So complicated.
 
Violeta

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,959
Bobbi007 said:
Do you have any idea why coming off my nitrate and CCB would cause MORE vasodilation???? Also my BP is going up since coming off the CCB which is odd because I have more vasodilation!

I can’t seem to do anything. Weak, heavy legs, movement intolerance, sitting up intolerance, talking intolerance, intolerance to everything except laying down it seems.
Click to expand...
The only thing I have seen so far about coming off of benzos is that the GABA receptors need to be resensitized.

"Benzo withdrawal is due to not enough GABA signalling after stopping the GABA agonist. So, trying some taurine may help."
One study examined how GABA lowered the blood pressure of adults with diagnosed hypertension. Participants took varying doses of GABA and monitored their blood pressure levels over eight weeks. Those taking 80 milligrams of GABA per day saw a significant drop in blood pressure.


It really does sounds like dopamine is being affected in some way. I found this study but I don't know what one would do with the info. Maybe someone else can interpret it and give you a bottom line.

Evidence for the role of brain norepinephrine and dopamine in “rebound” phenomenon seen during withdrawal after repeated exposure to benzodiazepines​


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0022395677900097
 
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LINE

LINE

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
USA
@Bobbi007 Can you provide any further background as far as tests or attempted treatments. Any interventions by Orthomolecular people (using nutrients to alter pathways). Any tests on pathogenic invasions such as viral, parasitic, bacterial etc.?

Any testing on toxins such as exposure to heavy metals (mercury, lead, aluminum etc.)?
 
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LINE

LINE

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
USA
Have they checked your antioxidant status, namely cysteine or glutathione levels? Selenium?
 
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Violeta

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,959
Violeta said:
The only thing I have seen so far about coming off of benzos is that the GABA receptors need to be resensitized.

"Benzo withdrawal is due to not enough GABA signalling after stopping the GABA agonist. So, trying some taurine may help."
One study examined how GABA lowered the blood pressure of adults with diagnosed hypertension. Participants took varying doses of GABA and monitored their blood pressure levels over eight weeks. Those taking 80 milligrams of GABA per day saw a significant drop in blood pressure.


It really does sounds like dopamine is being affected in some way. I found this study but I don't know what one would do with the info. Maybe someone else can interpret it and give you a bottom line.

Evidence for the role of brain norepinephrine and dopamine in “rebound” phenomenon seen during withdrawal after repeated exposure to benzodiazepines​


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0022395677900097
Click to expand...
Furthermore, the levels of norepinephrine and dopamine were significantly decreased in cerebral cortex, hypothalamus, pons-medulla, mid-brain and striatum presumably due to massive release of these neurohumors.

Withdrawal from these psychotropic drugs also enhanced the levels of striatal homovanillic acid which is formed as a result of extraneuronal (functional) metabolism of dopamine.

The present results may constitute a neurochemical basis for the role of dopamine and possibly norepinephrine in “rebound” phenomenon seen clinically as well as in laboratory animals during the “withdrawal” phase from benzodiazepine therapy.

So:
What are the symptoms of high Homovanillic acid?


Symptoms associated with this condition are depression, sleep disturbances, inability to deal with stress, and fatigue. Treatment considerations: Treatments to improve digestion, along with supplementation of tyrosine or phenylalanine, can help improve the ability to keep up with demand for these neurotransmitters.

Tyrosine may help.
 
B

Bobbi007

Messages
59
Violeta said:
Furthermore, the levels of norepinephrine and dopamine were significantly decreased in cerebral cortex, hypothalamus, pons-medulla, mid-brain and striatum presumably due to massive release of these neurohumors.

Withdrawal from these psychotropic drugs also enhanced the levels of striatal homovanillic acid which is formed as a result of extraneuronal (functional) metabolism of dopamine.

The present results may constitute a neurochemical basis for the role of dopamine and possibly norepinephrine in “rebound” phenomenon seen clinically as well as in laboratory animals during the “withdrawal” phase from benzodiazepine therapy.

So:
What are the symptoms of high Homovanillic acid?


Symptoms associated with this condition are depression, sleep disturbances, inability to deal with stress, and fatigue. Treatment considerations: Treatments to improve digestion, along with supplementation of tyrosine or phenylalanine, can help improve the ability to keep up with demand for these neurotransmitters.

Tyrosine may help.
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Thanks so much. I had high HVA on an OATS test a few years ago.

The oddest thing about my benzo is that it is more potent now. Just all of a sudden it started having a greater effect. I rummaged around the World Wide Web for a bit and found that high levels or “bad” levels of nitric oxide can increase the effect of psychotropic medications. So I assume that’s what’s happening since I’m vasodilated to extremes 😞
 
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