MARGARITA COLOMBO
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I don´t have a clue! I am sorry!
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Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
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Culturelle has dairy, that's all.A couple of of the exclusion criteria seem problematic for some of us:
The leaky gut protocol used by Maes, and maybe others, excludes milk, so presumably milk protein allergy - or sensitivity - is thought to play a part in leaky gut, at least for some people. (Or it may be lactose that that diet is designed to exclude.)
- Presence of an active bowel leak, acute abdomen, active intestinal disease, or significant bowel dysfunction
- Known or suspected allergies to...milk protein
Maybe this study is effectively testing a treatment for a different sub-group from that which many of us may fall into.
Can I ask, as a lot of the bits are lost on me, but would this do me any harm at all or is it just a supplement?
Thank you, anything is worth a go!
Hi Hip,
The reason you have a leaky gut in most cases is because of gram positive bacteria. Some species of strep, enterococcus, lactobacillus etc. form biofilms and create oxidative stress on the intestine walls as they produce hydrogen peroxide at greater than ROS levels .....
The hydrogen peroxide lyses the cells in the walls causing increased intestinal permeability (leaky gut) allowing small and large particles to pass through ....
This is the undetectable infection I have been blabbering on about ..... Once these bacteria break through the intestine walls they are attacked by the immune system .... continuously .... once broken through they also have direct access to the lymphatic system where they can take up residence and give the immune system a really, really hard time .... The lymphatic system is then placed under further oxidative stress from the bacteria within ....
System wide inflammation occurs from LTA Lipoteichoic Acid (Gram+ Bacteria Skins) which induces the inflammatory response, as you have stated.
The immune system burns out ...... The lymphatic system is taken out ..... result = ME/CFS
Happy New Year
The reason you have a leaky gut in most cases is because of gram positive bacteria.
I am not aware of any studies showing a link between Gram positive bacteria and leaky gut.
I am not aware of any studies showing a link between Gram positive bacteria and leaky gut.
@MeSci
Well thanks so much for that link - a recent MAPS test with Genova showed I had strep and e-coli. Medical history of boils and sore throats during my life pointed to strep infection.
I've been advised to start Paradex??? can't remember - been too ill to get on to it. But as the discussion says alkalising acids would help so that's why people taking bicarb etc. between meals feel better. I just tried a a/biotic for my recent fluey sore throat thing - it crashed me - too many toxins. so that's not an option for me.
Anyone else have a herbal remedy for gram positive bacteria - think I've asked already?
Seems both Doctors Chia and Merleir are in the right place. (Merleir also co-wrote this paper)
Here's the discussion for those not well enough to skim the paper.
'Indigenous bowel microflora can have both positive and
negative impacts on health. The balance of this ecosystem is
dynamic and alteration of intestinal bacteria may alter the
nutritional benefits to the host. Results in this study elucidate
a direct relationship between CFS patients with cognitive
dysfunction and marked alteration of the bowel microbial
flora where the dominance of the organism E. coli was
replaced by the Gram positive homofermentative lactic acid
bacteria, Enterococcus and Streptococcus spp. This
relationship demonstrates the need for measuring D- and Llactic
acid accumulation in biofluids of CFS patients
compared to healthy individuals to confirm whether D-lactic
acid may be involved in the pathogenesis of CFS.
The cause for the increased colonization of faecal
enterococcus and streptococcus in patients with CFS remains
unclear. A recent report of persistent enterovirus infection in
the intestinal tract of CFS patients suggests the possibility of
a chronic disseminated enteroviral infection disrupting the
local immunity (38). Microbial translocation is also a cause
of systemic immune activation in HIV infected individuals
(39). Based on the findings described in this study, existing
therapeutic tools such as short courses of an appropriate
antibiotic, alkalinizing agents, a low carbohydrate diet and
the restriction of glucose intake could become part of the
therapy of CFS patients who suffer from D-lactic acidosis
So if as they say in @Elph68 link
what happens after we take these a/biotics - how do we stop the bacteria from getting hold again?.
@MeSci
Well thanks so much for that link - a recent MAPS test with Genova showed I had strep and e-coli. Medical history of boils and sore throats during my life pointed to strep infection.
I've been advised to start Paradex??? can't remember - been too ill to get on to it. But as the discussion says alkalising acids would help so that's why people taking bicarb etc. between meals feel better. I just tried a a/biotic for my recent fluey sore throat thing - it crashed me - too many toxins. so that's not an option for me.
Anyone else have a herbal remedy for gram positive bacteria - think I've asked already?
Seems both Doctors Chia and Merleir are in the right place. (Merleir also co-wrote this paper)
Here's the discussion for those not well enough to skim the paper.
'Indigenous bowel microflora can have both positive and
negative impacts on health. The balance of this ecosystem is
dynamic and alteration of intestinal bacteria may alter the
nutritional benefits to the host. Results in this study elucidate
a direct relationship between CFS patients with cognitive
dysfunction and marked alteration of the bowel microbial
flora where the dominance of the organism E. coli was
replaced by the Gram positive homofermentative lactic acid
bacteria, Enterococcus and Streptococcus spp. This
relationship demonstrates the need for measuring D- and Llactic
acid accumulation in biofluids of CFS patients
compared to healthy individuals to confirm whether D-lactic
acid may be involved in the pathogenesis of CFS.
The cause for the increased colonization of faecal
enterococcus and streptococcus in patients with CFS remains
unclear. A recent report of persistent enterovirus infection in
the intestinal tract of CFS patients suggests the possibility of
a chronic disseminated enteroviral infection disrupting the
local immunity (38). Microbial translocation is also a cause
of systemic immune activation in HIV infected individuals
(39). Based on the findings described in this study, existing
therapeutic tools such as short courses of an appropriate
antibiotic, alkalinizing agents, a low carbohydrate diet and
the restriction of glucose intake could become part of the
therapy of CFS patients who suffer from D-lactic acidosis
Hi Maryb,
The only problem with this theory .... it doesn't explain the auto-immune issues fully .... Once the strep have access to the underlying cells (through the leaky gut), they have access to the lymphatic system where they take up residence and start killing the immune system from within ......
That is why the protocol that you have presented will generally only return a 75% recovery at best. (That is their data)...... But they are heading in the right direction .....
Cheers.
This new theory implies that once the autoimmune process is activated, it is not auto-perpetuating, but rather can be modulated or even reversed by preventing the continuous interplay between genes and environment. Since TJ dysfunction allows this interaction, new therapeutic strategies aimed at re-establishing the intestinal barrier function offer innovative, unexplored approaches for the treatment of these devastating diseases.