Hi Freddd,
I seem to be the paradox to the paradox. My timeline for the last two weeks or so goes like this. I was taking Hb12 and methylmateB, from which I have had pretty good results, and ran out, so I decided to take the Jarrow mb12 and Solgar Metafolin I had on hand. Within in 4 days I felt awful. I know this could be potassium, but i was taking potassium. I developed bad ibs symptoms (as I have everytime I have tried to take Mb12 and Solgar Metafolin, which leads me to suspect it may be the sugar alcohols used to sweeten both. I have had issues with sorbitol in the past) I also developed cheilitis at the left corner of my mouth, as well as muscle pain. After stopping both, and going back to hb12 and methylmate and folinic, the cheilitis went away, the other stuff is going away, and 4 days after adding the folinic, my nose peeled. I have ordered a methylfolate w/ no sweeteners to see if it makes a difference.
Hi Drex,
I seem to be the paradox to the paradox.
Actually, your description has brought to the forefront something that has been chasing around in my brain for a while, the nature of the induced folate deficiency by mb12. This has to do with the question of the amount
Play along and picture the situation. This might have everything to do the limited conversion of folic acid or folinic acid to methylfolate. Let' say that person AAA can convert 200mcg a day of non-active folic or folinic to methylfolate. With 10mcg of mb12 available via conversion from hycbl, methylation goes along, semi broken (partially blocked) and some things are handled via internal triage. A few cells get started with the limited mb12 and there is enough folate for those limited cells, and those things keep puttering along, unlike those people like me who have less internal folate conversion and have continual IBS, cheilitis and other problems. Then Mb12 is taken and some methylfolate. A gazllion cells all get started and need even larger quantities of methylfolate so that the amount of methylfolate that could get it started isn't enough to maintain that activity, leaving cells broken off part way through and the damage shows up, the peeling skin, the cheilitis, the IBS.
This begins to make sense of the ragged area beteen the two different methods.
This also expands the definition of Paradoxical Folate Deficiency to include an induced methylfolate deficiency by mb12 and low dose methylfolate. No wonder the prescription forms of Metafolin have such higher doses. It makes sense. So with Metanx we have maybe 25mcg of absorbed mb12 to 5mg of metafolin. Cerefolin is similar. Deplin comes in 7.5 and 15mg doses.
With the active b12 protocol there was a jumping in with both feet, methylation started in a day and low potassium in 3 days. The startup was intense but the problems were generally limited to low potassium and a lot of intensity with symptoms shifting around. They did not follow the expereince or logic of the SMP startup.
With the Simplified methylation protocol, there were a multitude of various problems that from somebody coming to it from the active b12 protocol experience seemed "weird". There were not simply a "light" version of active b12 startup, they were very different. The differences are visible to the naked eye. They didn't follow the same experience or logic of the ABP startup.
I have repeated over and over that the experience of each the SMP and ABP did not predict the other response. I think that anybody that looked at both would agree with that. There were two distinctively different things going on.
Needless to say, applying the methods of the SMP to the ABP exposed an entirely different set of problems that neither was adequate preparation for the hybrid approach.
What now that has been exposed is this triggering of methyaltion startup with ABP, not slow, more a binary ON/OFF effect which I mentioned before. When it STARTS, and it dosesn't start slowly, it needs enough methylfolate and everything else required for it to run through the initial startup without stopping in it's midst, stalled for lack of something, right in the middle of total unbalance.
This brought up the question that has been asked by many, what is the correct BALANCE amongst the components, and I haven't had an answer. I can see now where the problems are cropping up, epitomized by Drex in this post, and many thanks to Drex for being able to state it so clearly. No blatent PFD while on hycbl and folinic, some kind of balance there. In some people though PFD starts anyway. Then starting mb12 with a relatviely small amount of Metafolin, and running into PFD. It would appear an induced deficiency in this as the need created by the mb12 outruns the folate available, an out of balance situation.
Further, previously I and other have noticed the increased problems in switching from SMP to ABP and that it is not straight forward, at least not the way people are trying it.
I am going to copy this to it's own thread as I feel a discussion of these ideas needs to be done separately from the issues in this thread.
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...ency-Metafolin-and-Balanc&p=238907#post238907