Fibromyalgia linked to microbiome variation

[Learner1]

https://neurosciencenews.com/mirobiome-fibromyalgia-14286/

“We used a range of techniques, including Artificial Intelligence, to confirm that the changes we saw in the microbiomes of fibromyalgia patients were not caused by factors such as diet, medication, physical activity, age, and so on, which are known to affect the microbiome,” says Dr. Amir Minerbi, from the Alan Edwards Pain Management Unit at the McGill University Health Centre (MUHC) ...

Dr. Minerbi adds, “We found that fibromyalgia and the symptoms of fibromyalgia – pain, fatigue and cognitive difficulties – contribute more than any of the other factors to the variations we see in the microbiomes of those with the disease. We also saw that the severity of a patient’s symptoms was directly correlated with an increased presence or a more pronounced absence of certain bacteria – something which has never been reported before.”

 

[ljimbo423]

To me, Fibromyalgia and CFS are the same illness, just with different primary symptoms. In CFS it's fatigue and in Fibromyalgia, it's pain. I've had both FM and CFS for as long as I have been sick.

Are bacteria simply the markers of the disease?
At this point, it’s not clear whether the changes in gut bacteria seen in patients with fibromyalgia are simply markers of the disease or whether they play a role in causing it.

Because the disease involves a cluster of symptoms, and not simply pain, the next step in the research will be to investigate whether there are similar changes in the gut microbiome in other conditions involving chronic pain, such as lower back pain, headaches and neuropathic pain.

The researchers are also interested in exploring whether bacteria play a causal role in the development of pain and fibromyalgia. And whether their presence could, eventually, help in finding a cure, as well as speed up the process of diagnosis.

“By using machine learning, our computer was able to make a diagnosis of fibromyalgia, based only on the composition of the microbiome, with an accuracy of 87 per cent.

As we build on this first discovery with more research, we hope to improve upon this accuracy, potentially creating a step-change in diagnosis.”

 

[bertiedog]

The authors of the study state - "In line with observed alteration in butyrate metabolising species, targeted serum metabolite analysis verified differences in the serum levels of butyrate and propionate in FM patients."

I also have both these problems in my last stool test which is interesting.

To me, Fibromyalgia and CFS are the same illness, just with different primary symptoms. In CFS it's fatigue and in Fibromyalgia, it's pain. I've had both FM and CFS for as long as I have been sick.

What I don't understand is why they say exercise is beneficial for Fibro patients whereas its often the worse thing ME patients can do.

I ran quite a large Fibre group in my area for nearly 9 years where we held monthly meetings. I could see similarities especially to do with the amount of energy available plus difficulties with sleep but it did seem to me that in general they were at least able to push themselves if needed. They might suffer a bit the next day but not necessarily, nothing like the extent PEM hits ME patients. Also I didn't see that many if any of them suffered with POTS.

I must have seen around 300 or more Fibro sufferers during this time and my conclusion was that there were similarities to ME/CFS but there were also many differences.

Pam

 

[andyguitar]

Being able to make a diagnosis as accurate as 87% just by evaluation of the microbiome is pretty amazing. I hope they now compare the microbiome of fibro patients with me/cfs patient to see if there is a difference.

 

[andyguitar]

must have seen around 300 or more Fibro sufferers during this time and my conclusion was that there were similarities to ME/CFS but there were also many differences.

Yeah I would agree with that.

 

[ljimbo423]

I must have seen around 300 or more Fibro sufferers during this time and my conclusion was that there were similarities to ME/CFS but there were also many differences.

I agree that there are many differences. Exercise probably the biggest. Before my CFS got too bad, I use to exercise and felt better from it but I was fairly mild at the time.

There are many people here that are mild to moderate with CFS, that exercise because they feel better from it. I walk and feel better from it.

Jarred Younger said he thinks that brain inflammation is causing both FM and CFS. It's just a matter of how the microglia are being affected in the brain that causes the different symptom presentation.

 

[andyguitar]

Jarred Younger said he thinks that brain inflammation is causing both FM and CFS. It's just a matter of how the microglia are being affected in the brain that causes the different symptom presentation.

I am inclined to believe the difference could be that different areas of the brain are being effected.

 

[ljimbo423]

I am inclined to believe the difference could be that different areas of the brain are being effected.

I tend to agree and it might not need to be a big distance between the areas affected in the brain,(maybe just a few millimeters) to make a big difference in symptoms.

 

[bertiedog]

We just have to be so patient for the research to pan out one way or another. Trouble is that at age 71 I hope it isn't going to be too much longer!

Pam

 

[bertiedog]

There are many people here that are mild to moderate with CFS, that exercise because they feel better from it. I walk and feel better from it.

I don't do well either if I just sit around for long periods. I feel better from being out in the fresh air and have some exercise but no way could I manage the amount of walking that many of the Fibro group could do very regularly.

Pam

 

[ljimbo423]

I don't do well either if I just sit around for long periods. I feel better from being out in the fresh air and have some exercise but no way could I manage the amount of walking that many of the Fibro group could do very regularly.

I have a friend in Florida that has fibro and walks regularly. There's no way I could keep up with her either!

 

[junkcrap50]

Fibro has also been linked to SIBO. There are some studies linking the two.

 

[bertiedog]

The other thing that I remember from running the group was that hardly anyone was interested in helping themselves. All they wanted was for a drug to put them right and many of them were able to high doses of very potent drugs which just seemed to add to their toxicity and didn't take away their pain.

It was a very frustrating experience at times and I just couldn't relate to their lack of interest in helping themselves to at least feel better.

Pam

 

[Rufous McKinney]

To me, Fibromyalgia and CFS are the same illness, just with different primary symptoms. In CFS it's fatigue and in Fibromyalgia, it's pain. I've had both FM and CFS for as long as I have been sick.

Ditto.

Right now, I've noticed a short list of symptoms doing a bit better as I am compelled to walk more, on my vacation and visit to new Grandbaby.

But the FIBRO symptoms are much worse. So my lymph and profound weakness has improved, yet Brain Fog, Cogntive and weird PAIN on the surface of my body, spine keeps erupting daily.

I can barely let the shower touch me right now. Fine then. Move along, thank you.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Being able to make a diagnosis as accurate as 87% just by evaluation of the microbiome is pretty amazing. I hope they now compare the microbiome of fibro patients with me/cfs patient to see if there is a difference.

We should send numerous fresh samples for further Research to: Dr. Sharpe. Maybe he could do some data collection, instead of riffing his Invented Delusion.

 

[Sidny]

Interesting article. @MaximilianKohler if you haven’t seen this already thought you might find it interesting.

 

[Hip]

the changes we saw in the microbiomes of fibromyalgia patients were not caused by factors such as diet, medication, physical activity, age, and so on

So the microbiome abnormalities found in fibromyalgia do not look like they are caused by antibiotic use, nor other everyday external factors. Suggesting the microbiome abnormalities are a consequence of fibromyalgia, not a cause of this illness.

 

[ljimbo423]

So the microbiome abnormalities found in fibromyalgia do not look like they are caused by antibiotic use, nor other everyday external factors. Suggesting the microbiome abnormalities are a consequence of fibromyalgia, not a cause of this illness.

On this piece, my feeling is they are wrong. I don't think it's possible to take into consideration everything throughout a persons life that causes dysbiosis.

Like the microbiome we inherit from our mothers from their birth canal, varying degrees of stress, antibiotics taken at very early ages, unknown toxic exposures, etc. There are way too many influences on the gut microbiome to rule out "external" causes IMO.

 

[bertiedog]

So the microbiome abnormalities found in fibromyalgia do not look like they are caused by antibiotic use, nor other everyday external factors. Suggesting the microbiome abnormalities are a consequence of fibromyalgia, not a cause of this illness.

Just as a FYI, regarding the diet of the Fibro group that I ran for those 9 years, could only be described as very poor nutritionally speaking, very high in sugar and white carbs. Probably insufficient fats, protein and fibre.

If these Fibro sufferers had their microbiome investigated I would have been amazed if it had looked anything remotely like that of the healthy controls.

Just thought I would mention this.

Pam

 

[ljimbo423]

Just as a FYI, regarding the diet of the Fibro group that I ran for those 9 years, could only be described as very poor nutritionally speaking, very high in sugar and white carbs. Probably insufficient fats, protein and fibre.

If these Fibro sufferers had their microbiome investigated I would have been amazed if it had looked anything remotely like that of the healthy controls.

Just thought I would mention this.

Pam

That's interesting. The woman I know with Fibro also has a really bad diet, with a lot of sugar and junk food.