Dr. Judy Mikovits Interview re: "Plague", WPI etc.

[5150]

1.So... do patients want to continue to be blamed for having an illness? 2.Likewise, should Dr. Mikovits lose everything
because she happened to have extensive background in cancer and retrovirology resulting in her being hired by a family wanting to help their daughter?3 Who wouldn't want to help someone who had a sick child knowing that the findings could help millions around the world? 4)What scientists is aware of the politics in Nevada?


1)Hell NO. I am so sick of being made to feel shunned. My ex-girlfriend tells everybody I have CFS, but that she doesn't...that she's ok. WTH? when I met her , I was healthy as a Horse! She taught senior High School, where many students(and teachers&parents) get whatever is going around the community. Oh my, did I get sick from her &her students? She seems to care why, so i guess so do I.

2)Should Judy lose everything? Then, Shouldn't whittemores too? Also, Millions...not thousands.

3)who wouldn't want to help a sick child, knowing it can also help the world's millions? (might) not all have enough money.

4)What scientists are aware of the politics in Nevada? Practically none when they arrive, but everybody knows"The Good Old Boys Club" when they leave.

The book Plague provides much needed info for people to understand what transpired the last 5 years. I can not believe it has been 5 years since the Science article was published. Many were here in chat while we watched the interactions among scientists. I would like to say more but cannot.

This book truly reveals so much. You will have to decide for yourselves.[/QUOTE]

 

[5150]

@Kati, I am sorry you will not read the book. There is SO much more going on.

Like you, I vote for science and medicine. To that I add integrity and truth. Without personal integrity and a passion for the truth, science and medicine have become tainted by politics, greed, and corruption. Science and medicine are not immune to these devices. Numerous people frequently mentioned on patient forums have been victimized. Numerous have also been the perpetrators... they may not be what they appear. Each individual will need to come to their own conclusions.

I've worked as a Medical Technologist/Clinical Laboratory Scientist as well as in IT in healthcare for 35 years. The more you know, the more you really don't want to know.

Ignorance to the truth and realities of healthcare, science and medicine will only increase the likelihood that you or one of your family members will suffer. The same is true for scientists. What you don't know can hurt you.

Some people/organizations are magicians when it comes to managing their public persona..... Personally, I would much rather deal with someone who is forthright. Those who "appear" genuine and sincere in person but sell everyone out for their own personal benefit can go to hell. We are talking about people and patient's lives.

Just wait until it's 20 more years down the road. Those of us faced with death from this disease will likely be gone.
The ~15 years from now mean so much, life or death for the rest of the middle-agers.There must be action to hold people accountable! This is the most cowardly approach to take on deadly illness , that I am aware of... AIDS<are you ever gonna help us?

 

[lookinglass]

I think most here would agree with this. But there's a bigger question.. Does this generalized statement really apply in this particular case? Will we suddenly be "enlightened" to the truth or exposed to more one sided analysis of an event? IMHO, it's the latter. After thinking it through, I will not read the book. This is not a knee jerk opinion and probably not a popular one. Nevertheless, it's my opinion.

My biggest concern is the co author who is blatently anti science and known for his twisting of facts. He advocaties children not getting vaccinated and this has resulted in children becoming extremely ill or even dying from preventable diseases. I don't want to even say his name and give him a Google bump.

Mikovist impulsively aligned herself with the anti vaxers as well as saying that what causes autism also causes me/cfs.This was her choice, but I feel an unfortunate, unscientific choice made at a time there was no scientific evidence to back up whether this was a valid conclusion or not.

I have never been a fan of the WPI nor Mikovist. There just seems there are too many conflicts of interest.

I have other concerns but will not include them. I don't want to debate. But I think it's important we realize that a community doesn't necessarily have to have one opinion and each of us is entitled to his/her own.

I just think she doesn't add credibility to our community.

Barb

Barb what a pity you have such a bias against the co author Kent Heckenlively. To say blatantly that his views on vaccines have been the direct cause of children dying or becoming seriously il is quite slanderous. Kent has not denied he is not a research scientist, and I personally have very strong views about the danger of over vaccination of small children and babies and the promotion of unsafe vaccines by Government Health Agencies. Not enough is known fully about the susceptibility of some children to some vaccines and why these children exhibit symptoms similar to both Autism and indeed to M.E. following the MMR vaccine. There is a link. And it is autoimmune.
I have read PLAGUE and found the story readable and shocking. I think Kent has done Judy a service with the book and I hope her work will continue. It is not an easy conclusion for us victims of M.E. that she has proposed. i.e.that there is a retrovirus attacking our already compromised immune system. But the story she has to tell had to be told. There is much work still to be done and Judy may well have opened a Pandoras Box. But better opened than remain locked IMO.

 

[minkeygirl]

Here's a link to her audiobook

http://www.audible.com/pd/Nonfictio...f=a_search_c4_1_1_srTtl?qid=1418532069&sr=1-1

 

[Ecoclimber]

Barb what a pity you have such a bias against the co author Kent Heckenlively. To say blatantly that his views on vaccines have been the direct cause of children dying or becoming seriously il is quite slanderous. Kent has not denied he is not a research scientist, and I personally have very strong views about the danger of over vaccination of small children and babies and the promotion of unsafe vaccines by Government Health Agencies. Not enough is known fully about the susceptibility of some children to some vaccines and why these children exhibit symptoms similar to both Autism and indeed to M.E. following the MMR vaccine. There is a link. And it is autoimmune.
I have read PLAGUE and found the story readable and shocking. I think Kent has done Judy a service with the book and I hope her work will continue. It is not an easy conclusion for us victims of M.E. that she has proposed. i.e.that there is a retrovirus attacking our already compromised immune system. But the story she has to tell had to be told. There is much work still to be done and Judy may well have opened a Pandoras Box. But better opened than remain locked IMO.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...vement-is-giving-diseases-a-2nd-life/7007955/
Anti-vaccine movement is giving diseases a 2nd life

Kathryn Riffenburg decided on a closed casket for her baby's funeral.

She didn't want her family to see what whooping cough, her son's first illness, had done to 9-week-old Brady Alcaide. The nearly forgotten disease, which has in recent years afflicted thousands of Americans, left Brady's tiny body swollen and unrecognizable...

...Recent measles outbreaks in New York, California and Texas are examples of what could happen on a larger scale if vaccination rates dropped, says Anne Schuchat, the CDC's director of immunizations and respiratory diseases. Officials declared measles, which causes itchy rashes and fevers, eradicated in the United States in 2000. Yet this year, the disease is on track to infect three times as many people as in 2009. That's because in most cases people who have not been vaccinated are getting infected by others traveling into the United States. Then, Schuchat says, the infected spread it in their communities.

Yes, Kent is making a ton of money by creating conspiracy theories surrounding vaccinations on an unsuspectng and unscientfic community to feed the fears of the desperately uninformed and ignorant. The deaths are on him for exposing childhood diseases on other unsuspecting innocent children by encouraging parents to forego vaccinatons for their children.

I have read PLAGUE and found the story readable and shocking. I think Kent has done Judy a service with the book and I hope her work will continue. It is not an easy conclusion for us victims of M.E. that she has proposed. i.e.that there is a retrovirus attacking our already compromised immune system. But the story she has to tell had to be told.

Where is the clinical evidence that a retorvirus is attacking the immune system. A credible scientist would NEVER make such an outrageous statement without clinical evidence. Where is the evidence to those claims? Where are these sequences posted on GenBank? Where is the proof? There is none!!

 

[duncan]

Ecoclimber: What Mikovits is doing is setting forth a theory. YOU may think that theory has no merit. That is fine. But it IS a theory, and if you want to castigate anyone for giving false hope, you've plenty of big targets to choose from that are promoting therapies that we ALL know are potentially harmful to us as a community.

...

But I must admit I like the direction the sentence was taking, and I agree with you that proving or disproving Dr. Mikovits's claims should be a priority.

 

[barbc56]

Science has shown again and again and again that vaccinations do not cause autism. There is no link. None. Nada.

There's a risk vs.benefit consideration with vaccines but the benefits far outweigh the risks. While any individual risk is tragic, there's only a miniscule chance of this happening.

I would highly recommend Paul Offit's book, Autism's False Prophets- Bad Science, Risky Medicine and the Search for a Cure.

All royalties go to the Autism Foundation Project.
http://paul-offit.com/booksby/autisms-false-prophets/

Barb

 

[duncan]

Science has shown nothing, Barb. Please do not invoke "Science" like it's some third-party deity. It it is neither a third party nor a deity. It is an approach, a perspective, a tool with which we can better interpret and interact with our world - and a damned good one. The problems, when they appear, are to be found in its practitioners.

So. "Many scientists have reported, from their studies, findings that support an inference that vaccinations do not cause autism." Better, in that it is more accurate.

Now, if you want to really be accurate, I suggest you peel back that onion just a little further.

 

[barbc56]

@duncan
I'm not sure what your point is.
Barb

 

[user9876]

Science has shown again and again and again that vaccinations do not cause autism. There is no link. None. Nada.

There's a risk vs.benefit consideration with vaccines but the benefits far outweigh the risks. While any individual risk is tragic, there's only a miniscule chance of this happening.

I would highly recommend Paul Offit's book, Autism's False Prophets- Bad Science, Risky Medicine and the Search for a Cure.

All royalties go to the Autism Foundation Project.
http://paul-offit.com/booksby/autisms-false-prophets/

Barb

I've wondered about the risk vs benefit calculation. Are the older calculations still valid given anti-virals etc - I expect they are. I've also no idea what the actual risks are. I expect them to be small but a little understated because doctors are often unwilling to report undocumented side effects and hence side effects don't get documented.

I think the thing that I was really wondering about is that if we get to an era of personalized medicine could genetics then play into the risk v.s. benefit equation. So for example, if higher risks were associated with a particular gene would it be worth not vaccinating people with that gene. Would that be sufficient to avoid spread whilst reducing risks from vaccine damage. I probably find in interesting because I feel some interesting mathematical models could be produced to explore the ideas!

 

[duncan]

Barb, I've a few nestled in there, but I was trusting you'd infer. Ok. Let's see.

First, Science isn't to be preached, it's to be discussed. You do not denounce an opponent by invoking "Science" as if it were a hammer. If you do, you allow all those pesky weaknesses that are part of the human condition to slip in under the scientific radar, as it were.

Second, one thing scientists usually can agree on is there are relatively few absolutes. And this certainly isn't one of those few. Your "None. Nada" thing is uncomfortably hyperbolic.

There are very smart people - some of them scientists - that would oppose your statement, and they are not necessarily evil people. They can be concerned for the greater good as well. This is where, in part, my reference to peeling back the onion comes into play.

Yes, there is a risk/benefit consideration. The trick is quantifying it, isn't it? A problem is what do you count, and who is doing the counting. For example - I will use Lyme here because I know a little about it - how many deaths are attributable to Lyme each year? It's a difficult question in that it involves, well, scientists letting bias skew their arithmetic. So, getting the risk/benefit ratio right is not necessarily a done deal, even if I were to embrace your use of the word "miniscule".

 

[natasa778]

First, Science isn't to be preached, it's to be discussed. You do not denounce an opponent by invoking "Science" as if it were a hammer. If you do, you allow all those pesky weaknesses that are part of the human condition to slip in under the scientific radar, as it were.

Second, one thing scientists usually can agree on is there are relatively few absolutes. And this certainly isn't one of those few. Your "None. Nada" thing is uncomfortably hyperbolic.

Hit the nail again. See my reply above.

There is definitely a religious fervor surrounding the vaccine 'debate' - or the lack of (in that no one is allowed to debate, or the hammer comes down) with the likes of paul offit and sbm guy (who incidentally know absolute Nada about autism) playing the perfect role of priests, being evoked and linked to each time someone dares to discuss.


(btw if anyone is truly interested in the subject, as in how far we are from knowing anything and what we should be doing to get to the bottom of the problem, this is the best piece of critical questioning that I am aware of)

 

[Ecoclimber]

Privileged Antivaxxers


The Hollywood Reporter recently published what is mostly an exposé on privileged Hollywood parents who have elected to delay, limit, or avoid altogether immunizing their children. The most common headline coming out of this article is that some LA communities have vaccination rates at third-world levels, such as South Sudan. The issues raises many questions pertinent to the promotion of science-based medicine – what leads an otherwise well-educated individual with financial security to make decisions that actually put their own children (and others) at risk?

Some background
We have often observed at SBM that the anti-vaccine movement is likely to experience a serious backlash once epidemics of vaccine-preventable diseases start to emerge. I think we are seeing the beginning of this prediction coming true. Vaccines are partly the victim of their own success. The diseases they prevent, such as polio, measles, whooping cough, and others, are now uncommon. Modern parents have the privilege of not fearing these diseases because the vaccination program has reduced them to sporadic cases. Therefore, when pseudoscientists or ideologues stoke fears against vaccines, the fear of the diseases they prevent is not there as a balancing force.

That may be changing, however. The CDC reports:

During 2012, 48,277 cases of pertussis were reported to CDC, including 20 pertussis-related deaths. This was the most reported cases since 1955. The majority of deaths occurred among infants younger than 3 months of age.

From January 1-August 16, 2014, 17,325 cases of pertussis have been reported to CDC by 50 states and Washington, D.C.; this represents a 30% increase compared with the same time period in 2013....

Vaccine refusal is clearly an important factor in the recent pertussis outbreaks. That doesn’t stop antivaxxers from distorting the science....

 

[duncan]

"science-based medicine." "evidence-based science" "rigorous peer reviewed studies"

Phrases such as these are thinly disguised commercials. They are boilerplate.

They need to be absent from any serious scientific discussion.

 

[barbc56]

Geese, here I was accused of being "hyperbolic", yelling and preaching. I see many strawman fallacies being used but no one actually backing up what they are saying with facts.

Pot, meet kettle.

We are adults and that means we should debate like adults. Maybe discussing this issue might be better served on it's own thread?
Barb

 

[Undisclosed]

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This thread is now being closed for moderation purposes and will stay closed.

Thank you.