Dr. Jay Goldstein's Rapid Remission ME/CFS Treatments.

[Hip]

I had a good experience with the gas form of NO - very clear thinking.

How did you get hold of NO as a gas?

 

[Stretched]

How did you get hold of NO as a gas?

At dentist office - nitrous oxide.

 

[Hip]

At dentist office - nitrous oxide.

Ah, that's not quite the same thing: nitrous oxide = N20, whereas nitric oxide = NO.

 

[Stretched]

Ah, that's not quite the same thing: nitrous oxide = N20, whereas nitric oxide = NO.

Right, but how much difference, practically?

 

[Hip]

Right, but how much difference, practically?

Completely different effects. Nitrous oxide (aka laughing gas) does not exist naturally in the body as far as I am aware, whereas nitric oxide is naturally present and is a fundamental part of metabolism (it's a neurotransmitter in the brain, it's involved in vasodilation in the blood vessels, and it is synthesized by the immune system to destroy pathogens).

 

[Stretched]

Completely different effects. Nitrous oxide (aka laughing gas) does not exist naturally in the body as far as I am aware, whereas nitric oxide is naturally present and is a fundamental part of metabolism (it's a neurotransmitter in the brain, it's involved in vasodilation in the blood vessels, and it is synthesized by the immune system to destroy pathogens).

Do you know if this Is this related to the OTC supplement ‘Black NO’, which I have in my pill inventory?

Aden: Amazon sells several varieties as body building supplements but do not appear to have same ingredients as above question, Isosorbide Dinitrate

 

[Hip]

Do you know if this Is this related to the OTC supplement ‘Black NO’, which I have in my pill inventory?

Possibly if it is a body building supplement containing things like arginine to promote the production of NO.

 

[frozenborderline]

I am not really familiar with carbonic anhydrase; I was experimenting with breathing CO2 because it is a potent cerebral vasodilator, and since brain blood flow is reduced in ME/CFS, I thought dilating the brain's blood vessels using CO2 might help reduce brain fog and improve cognition.

I would say that breathing pure CO2 did have some mild cognitive benefits, but nothing major. It's easy enough to make a bag full of CO2: you just get a large plastic food bag, put some vinegar at the bottom, then add some bicarbonate of soda power. The reaction creates CO2, which you can collect in the bag.

I have had moderately beneficial results from breathing small amounts of co2 recently. I understand caution is warranted but I do think that the main harms documented by carbon dioxide overdose usually come when people are using carbogen or co2 with a mask strapped on and pass out. From what I have heard from a friend who experiments with this , it takes a decent amount of co2 to get to that point. I’d rather be doing carbogen than pure co2 but I take small “sips” out of the bag and exercise caution. I have grown to enjoy it and I use small amounts throughout the day. I haven’t measured spo2 while doing this but I have this to say about your spo2 dropping.—spo2 can be a measure of hypoxia but in the case of co2, the blood oxygen is displaced by co2 that binds to hemoglobin and the displacement means that the oxygen goes into the tissues. So while in general it’s possibly troubling if spo2 drops that much I wonder if it’s not such a bad sign in this case. Although I wonder how different it would be if u had , say, 90:10 carbogen

 

[frozenborderline]

Carbogen is being trialed with nicotamide to treat certain cancers cuirrently. Also curious about the possible beneficial effect of xenon, which is unfortunately more expensive

 

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Carbogen is being trialed with nicotamide to treat certain cancers cuirrently. Also curious about the possible beneficial effect of xenon, which is unfortunately more expensive

Wouldn’t it be nice to get a supply of nitrous oxide? Even in a dental setting it cleared my mind like never before, not high but total clarity without fog or other detritus.

 

[frozenborderline]

Wouldn’t it be nice to get a supply of nitrous oxide? Even in a dental setting it cleared my mind like never before, not high but total clarity without fog or other detritus.

itsquite possible to get nitrous oxide online. It’s not medical grade/premixed w oxygen unfortunately , but u buy whipped cream dispensers and then n2O chargers for them on amazon. However I don’t know what brands are good and some may have contaminants. Sold at head shops though. However I think carbogen would be cheaper to make

 

[frozenborderline]

Alternately you could probably get enough nitrous to feel decent for about five minutes by inhaling from a whipped cream can that u get at the grocery store. It’s not a big amount though

 

[Stretched]

Alternately you could probably get enough nitrous to feel decent for about five minutes by inhaling from a whipped cream can that u get at the grocery store. It’s not a big amount though

I read N2O is legal to buy in UK. ‘You want to go in on a blimp full

 

[Crux]

RE nitrous oxide :

Just make sure you take enough B12, nitrous oxide destroys B12.

 

[frozenborderline]

Update, I’ve been taking bigger and bigger doses of carbogen recently, out of a bag. I notice virtually no ill effects besides it possibly wearing at my teeth enamel a little bit. When I’m having intense pain or weakness it sorta revives me and helps w vertigo a little. The acute effects can be intense but even pleasurable. I do think it helps w blood volume some but there seems to be a threshold and it doesn’t have Lazarus like effects. However I would recommend this to anyone curious.

 

[frozenborderline]

Update, I’ve been taking bigger and bigger doses of carbogen recently, out of a bag. I notice virtually no ill effects besides it possibly wearing at my teeth enamel a little bit. When I’m having intense pain or weakness it sorta revives me and helps w vertigo a little. The acute effects can be intense but even pleasurable. I do think it helps w blood volume some but there seems to be a threshold and it doesn’t have Lazarus like effects. However I would recommend this to anyone curious.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19782665/ carbogen increasing perfusion in stroke hypoperfusion. Wonder if one could do hyperbaric carbogen or do hyperbaric oxygen and carbogen separately to optimize perfusion which seems to be a big problem in many disease states. @Learner1 Im thinking about doing hbot but also curious about doing it w some co2, will keep looking at literature ,

 

[hapl808]

I'm not sure if there's another more current Goldstein thread, but was curious about people's approaches.

If the challenge drug isn't available - is it possible to look at other drugs and supplements tried and judge by what made you feel better or worse? I realize it's all a bit imperfect - but that was my idea.

For instance, my absolute worst response came from a compounded testosterone cream. I already have good T levels, but my doctor wanted to supplement based on symptoms, not lab results. Normally I can't walk without some support, but on T my symptoms were 10x worse. Guaifenesin has helped me slightly in the past, but taurine also seems to help me a bit (thus the imperfect part).

Was just thinking that judging based on past experience is better than just throwing darts.

 

[sb4]

@hapl808 I vaguely remember reading some time ago that some infections benefit from testosterone.

Perhaps the testosterone was causing supression of other upstream hormones (progesterone, dhea, etc) which altered immune system in a negative way. Where you just taking T or did you supplement other things like pregnenolone as well?

 

[hapl808]

I didn't supplement pregnenolone at that time. I had tried DHEA upon occasion before that as I do sometimes test a bit low for it, but hadn't seen much result - maybe a slight benefit, maybe nothing.

 

[sflorence]

I'm not sure if there's another more current Goldstein thread, but was curious about people's approaches.

If the challenge drug isn't available - is it possible to look at other drugs and supplements tried and judge by what made you feel better or worse? I realize it's all a bit imperfect - but that was my idea.

For instance, my absolute worst response came from a compounded testosterone cream. I already have good T levels, but my doctor wanted to supplement based on symptoms, not lab results. Normally I can't walk without some support, but on T my symptoms were 10x worse. Guaifenesin has helped me slightly in the past, but taurine also seems to help me a bit (thus the imperfect part).

Was just thinking that judging based on past experience is better than just throwing darts.

I will be (hopefully) be making a new thread about the Goldstein protocol in the near future.

I am currently aggressively pursuing this protocol by trying various different combinations of not only the meds he mentioned, but also newer "smarter" drugs that weren't readily available or even known.

I have found great help through many drugs already. A drug called Lamotrigine has drastically improved my day to day energy, but also helped with depression and "agitation" that was one of my most awful CFS symptoms.

Another drug, which is the sister to guanfacine, has helped me a ton with sleep and waking up the next day feeling rested. It's called Clonidine, and like Guanfacine, it pretty much takes your body out of fight-or-flight, which is what most of us are stuck in.

Regards