Creepy posts by James Coyne to Jeanette Burmeister

[taniaaust1]

Coyne attacked dozens of Uk ME sufferers on two forums... with expletives and threats.... He defamed ME activists publicly on twitter and facebook, icluding Dxrevisionwatch... he pm bullied endless me activists .... he continues to bully and defame US but mainly UK sufferers

Yes he did.. and many of us are aware of the things he said (I followed all this at the start). You are taking silence to be that people dont care about the things that were said, which isnt at all true..it is rather shocking. It may be rather a case of many of us cant see how further inflaming things will help at all.

what is your problem with this issue being discussed here?

Are you trying to close down this important issue of ME sufferers being bullied and defamed by a psychology professional who has an established reputation for online abuse?

by Kina's post she isnt closing down this discussion. Im glad she isnt as now its here again **sighs** (I just want to focus on advocacy and stuff which will move us forward), its important that it is discussed and including what things were like with coyne and the ME/CFS community before his first bad comments and how this all may of came about.

I know you think he was out to sabortage us from the start but maybe that wasnt the case at all and just maybe there is something else going on with all this. (there are different ways of looking at it).

 

[taniaaust1]

Protecting free speech is not just "drama" but rather, essential for accomplishing our goals.

No one has stopped anyone from freely speaking. In fact lots has been said about all this by those who want to express.

 

[taniaaust1]

-

If I wanted to be part of the fight I would go to twitter and facebook. I choose not to.

Same here, I dont use FB on purpose as I really dislike all the gossip and stuff which goes on there so hence I dont even use it and instead use this. I've got better things to be using my limited energy on then getting myself upset over things and involved in things I cant change.

 

[taniaaust1]

The apologism for abuse of ME patients and other ME activists by the particular professional, who has a history of abuse, remains a probem.

I find it illogical to even think that you can force Coyne to appologise so see this goal as a complete waste of energy. The only way he would appologise I believe is if a court forced him to. It seems your goals are what many of us see as unachievable.

I'd like to state again that this is a not a case about us not supporting our advocates. Jeanette has my sympathy.

 

[taniaaust1]

I What appears to have been forgotten is that the activists whom Coyne turned on at first were exercising their right to critique the involvement of an established psychosocial researcher in US government funded research.

You are making an assumption there, that hasnt been forgotten at all (at least in my case anyway). Im sure there are many others too who havent forgotten that. This whole thing is hard to forget as it was all so unpleasant with how it all played out.

and having someone critisize what you do, doesnt necessarily mean at all it has to stop you from doing it.

Many of us supported those critisizisms our advocates had and had same thoughts too. Just cause Coyne disagreed doesnt mean a thing except he shouldnt have done it in the way he did.

 

[taniaaust1]

You are having a very polarized view of Coyne. Yes, he does engage in Twitter wars, which is wrong, but in the big picture I think of that as rather insignificant. I know many other scientists and politicians that also fight on Twitter daily, it happens so commonly that it's not even newsworthy any longer. It only takes a simple ban to stop anyone from trolling on your Twitter/blog account.

What I think is much more significant for the CFS/ME community is Coyne's interest in exposing PACE trial and other dubious claims of GET/CBT proponents. Coyne's letter to the tribunal where he stated why it was of scientific interest to have the PACE data released was one part of what helped Alem Matthees to win the trial and have the PACE data released, which we should not forget.

JES I'd like to thank you for this post, I think that is well said. We must not forget that even though Coyne is a dick, he has and still is impacting onto our community in a positive way too.

I still do think he could do more favourable things for our community.

 

[taniaaust1]

@skipskip30 I do not think any of my posts could be construed as "angry". Perhaps you could illustrate what words you perceive as "angry".
.

Like as to skipskip, you are also coming across with a kind of angry "tone" to me too eg you were like attacking PR and Kina earlier in this kind of tone, it appeared like you were basically accusing her of that she was about to shut things down. Your posts are often coming across as being angry even if you are unaware of this.

I think its just your very strong views appear to come across in this way but unfortunately it will end up getting people offside and not hearing you in the way you wish them to do so. You should be able to see this is going on in some of the responses you've got back to you.

 

[taniaaust1]

[ Why should established activists and professionals have to put up with being defamed by him?

Wildcat maybe explain to us then how us complaining about him could stop him from doing it? I cant see a value in it as I cant understand how it would help. So maybe you can help me and others see some sense in doing this if you explain how it would get him to stop it rather then possibly give him attention he could be seeking?

 

[taniaaust1]

Coyne has a history of abusing women (charged with domestic abuse).

and what has that to do with us, to me that's just bringing more drama to the whole situation. We dont need to know that to know that he isnt a nice person. We've seen his posts and know he's abusive. If he's ever seriously implied physical violence to any of us online, they should probably take out an restraining order on him.. has anyone needed to actually do so?

He obviously has deep psychological issues

Im not so sure, maybe this guy is just simply nasty and likes attention.

And just to make it VERY CLEAR - Jeannette NEVER engaged Coyne. She simply posted a tweet about Walitt and Coyne went off the handle on her and terrorized the ME patient community.

she indirectly engaged him when she posted about him....posting about him just fueled him and gave him the attention he was probably seeking. (Im not saying when I say this that she didnt anything wrong, I would of done the same but it did help lead to this all continuing on. When you completely ignore a bully on media, they usually go away).

I would think that members here - being part of the patient community, would come to the defense of others who have been and are continuing to be bullied. Just look at his posts - he is insane!

yes he posts often like a crazy. Exactly why many of us would choose to stay clear. Its obvious this is a person you are going to just further feed by posting about him and are probably just giving him the attention he seeks. This is a good reason to not inflame things further. Its not going to help those being bullied and in fact due to all the attention it may actually lead to him bullying them more to get further attention... things are going to go on and on.

So simply I dont see it as necessarily helping our advocates or protecting them by feeding him, my point of view is that it could be leading to further harm them.

This matter is very important to my heart. People from our community that I know, respect and love have been and are continuing to be hurt. because of Coyne's actions, these people have seen a remarked sliding in their health. Does this not concern our community here?

Nielk, I agree deeply concerning but not everything thinks its best doing what you are choosing to do about this. We all have different ideas on how its best to handle situations. I think its sad that same advocates are thinking we dont care just cause we act in a different way to they choose to do so. I think most of us here dont likeour advocates or in fact anyone being bullied.

i do want to clarify something, when I use the term "drama" that word to myself isnt a trivial word, to me its just a word implying negative things an negative life stuff eg if I had several life members die.. I would refer to that as life drama. I can see from the posts here some take that word differently then I do.

The situation going on though is more trivial then us needing to get back to focusing on good advocacy and helping move things forward so lives can be saved. People are dying from ME while we worry about someone bullying us with "online words". Yes it isnt pleasant at all but there is a bigger picture here and we need to be focusing on it. If people are being that offended cant they take court action or something? that is what Im doing re bullying Ive recieved. Im trying to do something actually about it (my case goes back to court in less then 2 weeks)

 

[Valentijn]

I agree that people should keep their twitter and facebook wars on facebook and twitter. Based on personal conflicts and the responses I've seen on online games and discussion boards, there seem to be some fairly standard tactics being used here.

One party has already blocked all of the people he finds disagreeable. That party doesn't want to talk to them or listen to the other party. The people being blocked can no longer directly discuss their feelings with him, and discussing it privately among themselves is not sufficiently satisfying.

So they find a public space where they can talk about him and hope it gets back to him and annoys him. This can happen in two ways. The first is that he directly reads the comments. Hence he can make the public baiting irrelevant and ineffectual by simply ignoring it, and hopefully not even bothering to read the drivel in the first place.

The other way this can get back and annoy the blocking party is by encouraging other people to contact him and harass him with the complaints of the people he is blocking, basically acting as proxies. This is harassment. Hopefully anyone who is upset about not being able to more directly interact with someone else is not engaging in such behavior.

Justifying the use of any of these tactics requires a claim of ongoing abuse. But this claim doesn't hold up when the "victim" can ignore the "abuser" who said the mean things, walk away, and get on with her life. If having trouble with that, therapy is a reasonable option.

 

[AndyPR]

The thing that gets me is that people come here angrily demanding that we should join their side, and if we aren't on their side then we are on the opposing side - nobody tells me what side I'm on, I choose the side I'm on and I might even choose to not be on any side but I know that I react badly to being lectured no matter who it is. And then there is the demand that we should do something about it, without saying or suggesting what we should do. I, like all of us, have limited resources and I'm not getting into a playground-type battle of he said this, she said that.

When he is abusive then that is unacceptable but as others have pointed out, block him, ignore him, take no notice of him. He may have some influence but he isn't going to take down PACE, BPS etc etc all by himself, ultimately only good science will do that, and that is what we should support, even if/when it comes from Coyne himself.

 

[taniaaust1]

I do feel the M.E community walked away from myself and others.

Hi, I hope you dont mind but Im going to start up a thread about the subject of "Is our community doing enough to look after our advocates" based on ME/CFS patient attacks upon our patient advocates and your youtube video (I found your video very sad to watch)

 

[taniaaust1]

Hello all. I just wanted to say that I think this is an important issue. I don't understand why many pwme allow abusive behaviour to continue.

Im wanting to know how we are supposed to stop it without further inflamming it?

 

[taniaaust1]

Is there a thread on this? Maybe I missed it? Not sure what I can do, but am open to hearing what might help. What kind of support do they need?

GG

PS If you know these people in person, I guess you might have some intimate knowledge, but with the way this illness works, how do we know there health went down do to conflict via advocacy work?

Hi GG,

I just started a thread to discuss that http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ing-enough-to-look-after-our-advocates.46881/ as I think that is a more worthwhile discussion rather then giving Coyte want he wants and feeding him. Maybe a discussion on how do we help our advocates and support them will be more helpful. (I put the youtube video on the thread of the advocate who's left due to patient abuse).

 

[Nielk]

No one has stopped anyone from freely speaking. In fact lots has been said about all this by those who want to express.

I know you have stated, @taniaaust1 that you have followed the story with Coyne from the start and are aware of what is going on but, you might not realize that Coyne has and is continuing to silence specific advocates by his continued harassment.

To be clear, Coyne has picked long time advocates who have fought to hold the government health agencies accountable for their malfeasance and for their neglect. They have been vocal I standing up for you and all ME patients.

Their voices are now silent because of Coyne.
This is a classic astroturfing method to bully and use character assassination in order to silence activists working in social justice.

It is not just a matter of ignoring him as @caledonia has mentioned. That is a good tactic to use against random cyber bullying. There is nothing random about Coyine's actions - whatever his reasons are for what he has done. Trying to find excuses for him is like finding excuses for a husband who abuses his wife (which incidentally Coyne was legally accused of) - saying the wife must have done something wrong, she must have enabled his rage.

Coyne's actions have not only caused some good advocates to stop all their advocacy efforts, but other advocates are afraid to speak out against the government neglect and malfeasance because they are afraid to become Coyne's next victim. This is the atmosphere that he has created.

So - the community wants to ignore this and continue to engage him and show him respect - that in my opinion is enabling the continuation of the bullying.

The only way to stop his bullying is for the community as a whole to disengage from him.

 

[Nielk]

Interesting video here about astroturfing methods -

 

[Cheesus]

The only way to stop his bullying is for the community as a whole to disengage from him.

Isn't that the same as ignoring him? I'm not trying to be provocative or argumentative, I am genuinely asking.

 

[Undisclosed]

The only way to stop his bullying is for the community as a whole to disengage from him.

Which is why it is puzzling that threads like this are started because they 'engage' him further indirectly.

Their voices are now silent because of Coyne.

No, their voices are silent through their own choice.

Coyne's actions have not only caused some good advocates to stop all their advocacy efforts, but other advocates are afraid to speak out against the government neglect and malfeasance because they are afraid to become Coyne's next victim. This is the atmosphere that he has created.

Nobody can make me do anything, I wonder how it is that Coyne has all this power over people.

So - the community wants to ignore this and continue to engage him and show him respect - that in my opinion is enabling the continuation of the bullying.

Starting a thread like this is a continuation. Maybe some of us would rather spend our time actually advocating for research, research money, government support, respect by doctors etc rather than wasting time on this issue. This continual promotion that we must do what certain people say rather than making our own choices about what we think and feel is not the 'continuation of bullying'. The bullying continues but in this case, not by Coyne and all it is serving to do right now is resulting in patients attacking each other and being accused of this and that. I for one am tired of being bullied too and it's not by Coyne. And I am tired of some advocates turning on the community because we don't want to resort to their tactics and beliefs.

 

[Cheesus]

Which is why it is puzzling that threads like this are started because they 'engage' him further indirectly.

I find the best way to defuse an argument on the internet is to close my laptop and have a nice cup of tea. Then, when I come back, I can do something else.

It works every time.

 

[Nielk]

Isn't that the same as ignoring him? I'm not trying to be provocative or argumentative, I am genuinely asking.

The community as a whole has not ignored him. Many are continuing to show him respect and engage with him - promoting and sharing his posts/blogs - on PR as well.