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which symptoms methylation made disappear for you?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by joshi81, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    I now have no more arm pain. My arms are weak, but no more pain. I'm beginning to start mild exercise, no weight, but using them. I'm using Enzymatic Therapies. ciao.
  2. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Do you think going gluten and dairy free is related to methylation? If yes how so? Thanks
  3. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    HI Knackers,

    I discontinued milk and cheese as these are the food sensitivities I have left after all the healing is done. I have no problem with butter with a very small amount of milk solids, and heavy cream, no milk. I have no gluten problems so it is irrelevant to me. It isn't related to methylation at all as far as I can tell, just direct inflammation and prevention of healing in the intestines.
  4. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    Rome,Italy,Europe
    i am also going gluten free but i don't see any changes...but i think the ones who tell that you should stay months gluten free eve 1 year si i try my best to stay as long as i can gluten free , just to try and see what happen but...guys it's a pain in the a... i am in italy..imagine that good pizza that my friends eat when we meet and ...i have to cook and brinh my lunch or dinner uff.. i miss pizza so much :( or even pasta... it a crime to be gluten free in italy :D
  5. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Hi knackers. I think it must have to do w/ the antibodies crated by gluten and dairy. Before I stumbled upon the GAPS diet I was ready to end my life. My nervous system was so overactive, that life was unbearable. By mid 2011 I thought I had a brain tumor. I'd been able to improve my situation a bit by adding glandular supplements: hypothalamus, adrenal, pituitary. The hypothalamus, within 3 hours, stopped my extreme stress reactions. Prior to this, when I went out into the heat, which wasn't objectively terribly hot, I began hyperventilating and shaking. This was also my response to any extreme noises, like blowers, chain saws, and had been for a year. I was an agony of nervous excitation. 3 days into the gluten/dairy-free diet, my nervous system calmed. By the 2 week mark, the remaining Dupuytrens Contractures in my hands, and residual frozen shoulder released. Over the following year I uncovered pyroluria, which includes connective tissue issues, as being a factor for me, and supplemented for it, bringing many more benefits. These supps included minerals, p5p, and TMG: a methyl donor! I now believe pyroluria, discovered before genetic testing, to be a condition common in MTHFR and CBS mutations.

    Also I forgot to include in my response about my improvements, that in the last months I've regrown the hair on my arms and legs, and I'm no longer overheating. I can tolerate warm weather again, which had been a terrible stressor for me in the last couple years before finding GAPS, then getting the whole methylation pathway working. I've also reduced my thyroid doses from 60 to 40 mcg. It's funny, I've kept such track of my symptoms over these years, and yet now, when I'm truly healing, I have to think hard to remember some of the drastic things I've now recovered from. cheers, ahmo
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2014
  6. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    josh, yes, it won't be easy. Natasha Campbell-Mcbride, a neurologist who developed GAPS to cure her autistic son, goes much further than non gluten. She has us eliminate all starches and sugars to allow the gut to heal. A very radical diet for anyone who's socializing around food. Radical enough for me, who was a vegetarian, and is now a recluse, so have no social eating to consider. cheers, ahmo
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    HI Josh,

    I miss the pizza too, with cheese of course. I haven't had a pizza or ice cream or just a nice sharp cheddar on crackers in 4 years, very sad.
  8. Soundthealarm21

    Soundthealarm21 Senior Member

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    I miss Italian food!! My parents went to Rome in October and they made me very jealous with the pictures of food they sent back! My mom has since gone gluten free, finding out she has high gliadin antibodies, and her arthritis went away within 2 weeks!

    But replacing the grains with fat has made it a pretty easy transition. Not being afraid to eat fat was key. I'm in bed the vast majority of the day and eat high protein high fat and very low carbs and I've lot 16 pounds (no calorie counting either). I can only imagine how much weight i'll lose once I can exercise again. I'm 6'3" at 232 pounds right now down from 248 pounds.
  9. Xhale19991

    Xhale19991

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    So once we get on your methylation protocol to deal with half the issue...... how do we then try and fix the ATP/Mito problem?
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Xhale,

    That is the other half of the deadlock quartet, the AdoCbl and carnitine which is dependent upon the methylation which is dependent on the ATP etc. Biotin and D-ribose is helpful for many in getting this started. For a lot of people keeping the startup[ slow enough to be comfortable is more of a problem. LCF is easy to titrate and works well at controlling rate of increase.
  11. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    @Freddd is there a multi of some sort that could be used to cover some or all of the other 30 odd co factors?
  12. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Knackers,

    Herein lies the problems. Some things, like magnesium, calcium and multi small dose minerals fit in two or three a day tablets. Some of these amounts may be perfectly acceptable, and some may need additions. So for instance I take a multi mineral. I take another 50mg of zinc, 200mcg of selenium, a chromium GTF supplement, an extra magnesium supplement and then 18 or so potassium tablets. I'm taking 14 grams of C. While not everybody is going to do that, it is 14 more 1 gram tablets. I take 3 fish oil capsules twice a day. I take a b complex without folic acid or CyCbl. But I also take 2 capsules of lecithin a day. I take biotin, p5p and pantithine, 3 more of the b-complex as separates not even to mention the methylfolate and b12s. The I take a Cod liver oil concentrate vit A & D, plus 2 x 2000 IU D3 separates. Then, instead of 30-50 IU of dL-alpha tocopheral that would be in a multi, I take an 8 factor high gamma E complex 400 IU.

    So the most suitable might be a pre-natal vitamin with methylfolate and MeCbl without iron, and then add everything but the b-complex in separates. I don't know that by the time it is customized to your needs it won't be just as many pills and it makes it difficult to avoid things you don't want.

    I also take Chondroitin & glucosamine for the pain in my knees and hips, which works well as long as I strictly take them twice a day.

    It isn't simple no matter how you do it. The more things in one pill the more likely something to avoid will sneak by.
  13. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

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    @knackers323
    Hi Knackers

    Sorting out supplements is definitely very complicated, at least I find it so.

    If you are thinking of a multi though, you might consider Thorne. They have a multi with or without copper and iron and the folate is 5-MTHF and they use methylB12. You still might end up supplementing somethings individually. The amount of folate in the Thorne is 130mcg and the B12 is 66.5 so not too much.

    I guess it depends on how much money and especially how much energy you have to spend on sorting out very specifically what you need. So a multi like this one might be useful depending on that.
  14. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Hi everyone, this is my first post and I wanted it to be positive, because this is how I have been feeling most of the time since starting mB12 a couple of weeks ago.

    The symptoms that are going quickly away for me are:

    EMF sensitivity, blurred vision, brain fog, negativity, clumsiness, difficulty swallowing, frequent urination, procastination, unrestorative sleep, heat intolerance (having several days in a row with temperatures around 40°C/ 104°F here where I live), am I dreaming again or is this the short term memory coming back?

    Muscle and sciatica pain improved after I stopped eating gluten last July. Dermatitis started clearing last month after sun exposure.

    So I had first to improve a little to then be able to create an account here and start posting. I still have a lot of reading around to do, but would like to ask if I should start a separate topic to ask for guidance in my particular case or if there already is a specific topic to do that.
  15. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Hi Gondwana
    You taking anything else with the mb12
  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Hi Knackers, my current situation regarding supplementation is (it is not my intention to hijack this topic):

    -vit D: started 3,000ui daily last August, then in December dropped it to once a week or every 2 weeks (summertime) and also unsure to take it due to Lyme

    -Thyroidinum homeopathy: 5 drops daily since September (now on and off b/c I think I am going to need adrenal support)

    -transdermal progesterone: since September but still trying to find out how many days in the month I should use it

    -Fish oil of inexepensive brand 2g daily since late December

    -vit E Gamma complex: 400iu daily since late December (tried to up it to 800iu but started bruising easily)

    -Magnesium: started foot baths with Epsom salts in January, but didn’t feel very well (heavy calves and burning sensation in lower back – could it be due to water kefir or wrong probiotics?) also started Mg glycinate orally but then found dr. Klinghardt’s warning against oral Mg and stopped it

    -Zinc: started Zn picolinate 25g with breakfast last week

    -Selenium: perhaps will start Se methionine this coming weekend

    -vit C: I am having trouble with it. The 1st one I tried gave me fatigue and intense muscle twitching in the back or my arms and right eyelid. Then switched to another one with a little fatigue (heavy eyelids), next I am going to try acerola powder and camu camu powder. Right now I am taking 500mg daily since I am already getting heavy eyelids on and off from the mB12.

    -B-50: in early January I took only two caps and could not stand the pain in the right kidney (or was it the appendix?), so no multi-B right now

    -cyanocobalamine: likewise could only take 2 tabs before switching to mB12 3 weeks ago, THEN I found out about methylation

    -mB12: 1500mcg daily, having worked myself up from 500mcg (as advised by Eric – howirecovered.com)

    -Potassium: the salt substitute I can buy here contains 49%NaCl. I do have a collaborative MD, but I am not sure he will prescribe me any K supplementation...


    The mB12 I am taking is from the local compounding pharmacy. Tomorrow I am going to pick up methylfolate (800mcg), cobamamine (3g) and acerola powder (1g) from the same pharmacy. I plan to start on 1/4 tab of each, but don’t know in which order or at what time of the day. Today I started taking my 1,500mcg of mB12 at once after breakfast instead of divided after the 3 meals.


    Once I know I can tolerate everything I will place an online order for the recommended brands (delivery time is over a month). I imagine I will have to reduce the dosages due to their higher potency though. The mB12 supplementation has actually been a roller coaster energy-wise for me, but mostly with positive results. The 1st dose felt like I was cured of everything I ever had in my life. After the 1st increase one week later I crashed for 2 days. Yesterday I increased again and today I took everything after the breakfast. The immediate feeling was the darn heavy eyelids... But it is clearing slowly.


    Sorry for rambling... I still have so many questions... Haven't even finished reading Eric's FAQ yet...


    izzy
  17. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Izzy,

    TOO MUCH SODIUM, not enough potassium. You can order pure potassium chloride. You can also get a "no-salt" brand of "lo-salt" that has no sodium in most places. There are also tablets with 99mg or so of potassium from potassium gluconate, citrate etc.

    Also, B-50 has way too much of b1, b2 and B3 most likely
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    South America
    Hi Freddd, thank you so much for your input. Now I see how lowered K might be behind the unwanted side effects I am experiencing - fatigue, the back pain wich is probably the sciatic compressed by the piriforms (never had this one before), yesterday my calves started cramping mildly and my heart "jumped" once after lunch. Obviously taking Na ascorbate and ascorbic acid + CaCO3 didn't help!

    I will need a MD prescription, and the compounding pharmacy wil take at least until Tue to delivery K caps (I will try to speed things up but time is against me since today is Fri). What would be the lowest useful dosage to supplement? I am 5.3' / 106 lbs (and going down). Early Dec I had blood tested looking for causes to frequent urination (in Sep one MD prescribed me cipro for UTI and I took it...) and the results were:

    serum Na 142 mEq/L (137-145 mEq/L)
    RBC Na 39 mEq/L(25-55 mEq/L)

    serum K 4.5mEq/L (3.5-5.3 mEq/L)
    RBC K 85 mEq/L (60-80 mEq/L)

    serum Mg 2.00 mg/dL (1.9-2.5 mg/dL)
    RBC Mg 5.0 mg/dL (4,3-5,7 mg/dL)

    In the meanwhile I will eat oranges, carrots, avocado, banana, tomatoes (I have been eating almost no fruit lately).

    Thanks again,

    izzy

    Edited to say that I think I might get K citrate (1080mg or 540mg) and slow release KCl 600mg from the drugstore hopefully w/o prescription. What about vit B1 deficiency? I am not eating legumes for 2 months now due to autoimmune disease. Should I take the multi-B prior to K supplementation?
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  19. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Izzy,

    At least in the USA the time release potassium is considered dangerous and to be used as a last resort for people "unable to comply" with the frequent dosing otherwise required or ordinary oral potassium. The problem is not usually a low tissue potassium but a suddenly falling serum level faster than it can be brought back up. One woman illustrated it well when she get a series of 3 tests over a few hours. The first one was 4.x. The second was 3.6. The third was 3.2. It is good to know what is going on. I take it that you are not trying to loose weight.

    The amount of potassium needed by people who were not overdriving it with high dose b1, b2 and b3 ranged from about 1000mg a day to 3000mg a day.


    It sounds like you could likely benefit from the deadlock quartet. Be careful in getting your body functioning better.
  20. MARGARITA COLOMBO

    MARGARITA COLOMBO TAOWAY

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    -Magnesium: started foot baths with Epsom salts in January, but didn’t feel very well (heavy calves and burning sensation in lower back – could it be due to water kefir or wrong probiotics?) also started Mg glycinate orally but then found dr. Klinghardt’s warning against oral Mg and stopped it

    Hello Izzi, could you please tell me where you found Klinghard´s warning against oral Mg? it is the supplement that has made huge improvement in my general health and would like to know cons before going on with it. Most of the people that I have found getting huge improvements take Mg. I even have completely normal days in EVERY ASPECT EVEN BRAIN FOG taking Zantac twice a day, I just discovered it and worked miracles, but ranitidine can not be taken for long periods, so I was relying on going on with Mg.
    Thank you very much.

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