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repairing with B12 without overmethylation?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by boo85, May 23, 2013.

  1. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Are you taking any methylfolate, SAMe, TMG, or niacin with your B12? If you're not sure why I'm asking for each of those I can explain later.
     
  2. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I heard from someone else today (besides Boo who created this thread) who also had a hypersensitivity to B12. This person said they were able to tolerate methylfolate without any problems, but even a very small amount of hydroxocobalamin (not even methylcobalamin) caused them problems. They tried taking B12 with and without methylfolate, but that didn't make a difference in their response to B12. I don't know how it could be overmethylation since the response was the same with or without methylfolate. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it doesn't make sense.
     
  3. Bead Dog

    Bead Dog

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    A friend of mine worked at a vitamin company doing testing in the lab. She said to always keep your supplements in the bottles they came in because many become unstable and less potent when exposed to light. That's why they are in opaque or dark bottles.
    Also B vitamins become less stable when exposed to water.

     
    Lotus97 likes this.
  4. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Are you referring to me? I didn't even know my reaction was unusual until you expressed surprise.
     
  5. mominmo

    mominmo

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    I am not. I am taking two B Rights a day in addition to the Jarrow B12s. I'm taking magnesium (which I have for a long time), vitamin C, fish oil and calcium.

    I took some capsules filled with NoSalt and induced horrific heartburn. I've just been adding it to my food and drinks now throughout the day, and I can keep the hypokalemia under control. I'm just dealing with the taste. As for the other symptoms, they seem to return quite readily after several hours of not taking B12. But I'm not 100% sure that's what it is. Could the burning sensation also just be hypokalemia?

    Because I'm back to lifting weights and my requirements for B12 are high, I'm increasing the Jarrow to compensate. I've been up to 6 of the 5000 tabs a day. The good thing is I don't notice any increase in low potassium symptoms doing that. I've considered taking folate and/or adB12, but I'm afraid to complicate matters. I am going to try more B12, then more potassium, and then I'll consider adding these to see if I get any relief from the burning. The burning sensation in the roof of my mouth is the most annoying. The rest I can deal with.
     
  6. mominmo

    mominmo

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    Maybe because they're not deficient in folate, but they are in B12. If I'm correct that taking B12 starts the process of repair which dramatically increases the need for B12 (like it does potassium), then the symptoms experienced are actually of B12 deficiency. I could be wrong, but I definitely have not had an increase in symptoms for taking much more B12.
     
  7. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I'm glad you're getting some relief from your symptoms. Hopefully you can take methylfolate at some point because methylation can help repair the myelin sheath. Maybe just taking methylcobalamin helps with myelination. I don't know much about this, but neuropathy is a complex issue and can't necessarily be boiled down to nutrient deficiencies. I seem to have some neuropathy, but I have Lyme disease so it might be from that. Rich said most people with CFS/ME have a "functional B12 deficiency" which is caused by glutathione depletion, but this might be different than the people say they have neuropathy due to B12 deficiency although people with ME/CFS also have neuropathy for various reasons. Marco wrote about it in a series of articles about ME/CFS being a neuroinflammatory condition. He discusses neuropathy in this article (there's links to his other articles at the end of this one)
    http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/201...akes-on-symptoms-of-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/
    I know you said you don't have CFS/ME, but for anyone else following the thread they might be interested.

    One other thing I wanted to ask/tell you. Based on what you said about your dosage of methylcobalamin, I'm assuming that you're taking Jarrow's "bad" methylcobalamin. Up until summer 2012 the quality of Jarrow's methylcobalamin was one of the best. After that the quality of Jarrow's dropped dramatically. There's a thread about it here:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/jarrow-did-it-change.18154/

    I don't know how much worse Jarrow's is now, but my guess is it's significant based on what others have said. Enzymatic Therapy is one of the best brands, but it only comes in 1000 mcg. You could still try that when you run out of Jarrow's. Bluebonnet and Solgar make a 5 mg methylcobalamin. Some of the people in that thread about Jarrow said they were pretty good, but I'm not sure if they're quite as good as Enzymatic. AOR also makes 15 mg methylcobalamin which might not be as good as Enzymatic either, but for higher doses that might be another option.
     
  8. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Yes I was. I've heard from several people with a strong reaction to methylfolate, but not B12. Most people can tolerate at least 200 mcg of methylfolate, but there's a small minority that experiences a hypersensitivity to methylfolate. Part of the reason Rich chose a multivitamin without methylfolate for his protocol was because some people might not be able to tolerate much methylfolate at the beginning of methylation in which case they wouldn't be able to get their vitamins and minerals if the multivitamin had methylfolate.
     
  9. mominmo

    mominmo

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    Thanks so much for the information. I do have Enzymatic Therapy, so I will try taking it tomorrow instead. I did take some methylfolate today (800) and I don't notice much of a difference. The burning symptoms remain noticeable. I seem to have been wrong about needing more B12. The burning sensation in my palate which bothers me most is better thankfully. It was terrible yesterday. I read that people can feel terrible for quite some time while healing takes place. What I don't know is how long to tough it out before I question whether I'm healing or have just induced new deficiencies? It's interesting to me that even after a week of no supplements, I continue to have the symptoms (that I didn't have prior to taking methyl B12). Instead of B Right, I'm taking a high potency B multivitamin. I thought it might be a good idea in case some other deficiency is giving me fits. I took it for the first time today, so time will tell.

    I really appreciate having someone to process this with! Thank you so much.
     
  10. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I think some of the people with neuropathy said that taking too much too soon can sometimes make things worse so maybe you need a lower dose and then build. It's going to be hard for you to figure a dosage if you're taking Jarrow since like I said the quality is lower than other brands. I've heard from people who have been taking high doses of methylcobalamin for years, but when they stop the neuropathy returns. I don't know what the solution is, but I hope people are looking into the root cause beyond just B12 deficiency. One person said their serum B12 went down after taking lithium. There was also a thread about transcobalamin deficiency.
     
    helen1 likes this.
  11. susieq777

    susieq777

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  12. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    Yes, probably the ideal plan would be to plan on having potassium on hand, and get levels checked soon after you start the protocol. But if you do start feeling horrible, its better to try taking potassium than not, to see if it helps (i.e., potassium gluconate, not food potassium). The dangers of getting too low too fast, and not taking any are much larger than the danger of taking too much.
     
  13. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    I just have to speak up here. Potassium overdose can be fatal.

    from
    Clinical features and management of poisoning due to potassium chloride.

    Saxena K.
    Department of Emergency Medicine, St Paul-Ramsey Medical Center/Ramsey Clinic, Minnesota.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2689836

    "Potassium toxicity manifests in significant, characteristic, acute cardiovascular changes with ECG abnormalities. Besides cardiovascular effects, neuromuscular manifestations in the form of general muscular weakness and ascending paralysis occur. Gastrointestinal symptoms manifest as nausea, vomiting, paralytic ileus, and local mucosal necrosis which may lead to perforation"
     
  14. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    I take sam-E at 1.4g a day which is used in methylation cycles and I think it repairs my liver as some studies seem to show. It does cause some nausea or discomfort sometimes it seems. It seems to help my sleep breathing disorder and is a precursor to myelin and melatonin and neurotransmitters. I wonder if demyelination occurs as we age

    3 hepatologists told me not to take anything after my liver damage, but I'm not sure if I should take the sam-E after liver damage
     

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