The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Possible Brain Biomarker for ME/CFS Found

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by zzz, Oct 29, 2014.

  1. zzz

    zzz Senior Member

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    Fresh out of Stanford, a new study by Dr. Jose Montoya and colleagues:

    Study finds brain abnormalities in chronic fatigue patients

    The full article can be found by clicking on the title.
     
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  2. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

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    I'm looking forward to reading the full paper but I'd be very surprised if the findings are unique enough (or sufficiently clearly discriminate ME/CFS from controls) to represent a "CFS-specific diagnostic biomarker".

    Still interesting though.
     
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  3. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member

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    Fascinating. Someone should do MRI's of ME patients who have "recovered" or are in remission to see weather these changes persist when symptoms abate. It might reveal whether the changes seen on MRI's themselves produce the symptoms, or whether the changes are "collateral damage" or perhaps even some kind maker of susceptibility present from birth.
     
  4. Gijs

    Gijs Senior Member

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    ME patiënts don't have afasie. This finding is not a biomarker at all.
     
  5. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    These findings need to be replicated in a larger study. It also sounds like the patients were hand picked, so this might apply only to a subset of patients. If they were hand picked, the obvious question is: based on which criteria?
     
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  6. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I had it.
     
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  7. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    I think you'll find many patients have mild visual and auditory aphasia at least.
     
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  8. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

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    It is true that distinct aphasia is not observed in most ME patients. (literally not being able to speak)

    It might suggest something else but I too lack confidence that those results are going to be useful.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  9. Min

    Min Guest

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    Thankyou, I hope this leads to much more research on the badis of the findings.
     
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  10. Gijs

    Gijs Senior Member

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    It it well known that CFS patiënts have reduced white-and gray matter overall. Nothing new has been found. Nobody in the scientific world cares about these findings.
     
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  11. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I agree
     
  12. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Isn't aphasia due to problems with the LEFT arcuate fasiculus? This study found the abnormalities on the right arcuate fasiculus.
     
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  13. Matthew Jones

    Matthew Jones Senior Member

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  14. Bob

    Bob

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    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2014
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  15. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphasia

     
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  16. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

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  17. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Isn't it the case that they think the right arcuate nucleus might be enlarged due to suspected defects in the left arcuate nucleus? If I recall correctly, didn't the qeeg data show that the left arcuate nucleus was underpeforming? I could be wrong, its been a while since I saw the videos.

    Also that the data on abnormalities arising out of the left arcuate nucleus is disputed and controversial?

    PS While I was writing both @Snow Leopard and @lansbergen posted things that match with what I have read, even though I don't recall the specifics.
     
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  18. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

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  19. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Another thing that came out of the Stanford symposium where this was measured is we have reduced cortical thickness in most places, but one place that is increased in thickness. Specific symptomology also matches likely symptoms when brain abnormalities were found by qEEG, or quantitative EEG. Also its worth remembering that these findings are similar to what the Japanese found with brain inflammation in their modified PET scan.

    Different lines of investigation are showing similar things, and it was the Stanford study which enabled this by using one cohort for many studies. Patients results can then directly be compared study to study. What is interesting here is NOT any individual study so much, but that collectively they tell a larger picture.

    All this relates to pathophysiology though, and does not directly give us a handle on causation. Yet if these studies hang together with replication etc., then any model of ME is going to have to reach a much higher standard to be acceptable.

    Edit: Its clear I misremembered cortical thickness for white matter thickness. Its white matter, the connections between neurons plus a soup of immune cells, that is decreased.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
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  20. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member

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    Word retrieval problems are part of both the CCC and ICC definitions of ME/cfs.

     
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