Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
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MTHFRade & electrolytes: tips & tricks

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Sherpa, Jan 11, 2015.

  1. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie

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    It seems like a significant percentage of my problems with fatigue, muscle ache and exercise intolerance are caused my poor electrolyte balance. Also my methylfolate side effects.

    I tried to fix this by drinking coconut water. Then I tried potasium gluconate, but I had a bad hyperkalemia reaction after I started craving potassium and drinking more potassium powder (perhaps 2500mg in one day). Potassium powder is cheap but very strong and not balanced with other electrolyes.

    To get this down right - it seems we need the right amount of sodium, potassium and magnesium. We also need the right ratio of water - too much will make you pee, too little will make the electrolyte mix too potent and strong. We need to deliver it slowly throughout the day or activity period.

    • For MTHFRade I am using Optimal Electrolyte powder (580mg K, 150 Mg, 140 Na) mix. I dissolve 1 scoop in 1 liter of purified water, and drink slowly throughout the day (from about 8am to 4 pm). It's not cheap, but at < $1 scoop, it's more inexpensive than mix-it-yourself MTHFRade.

    • If I crave extra potassium I am trying to get it from food, like bananas and potatoes.

    • I salt my food to taste - neither cautiously or excessively.

    • I am trying to roughly balance my supplemental (powder) potassium & magnesium to a 1:1 ratio. (I am not sure if this is ideal -- ??? -- just trying to keep things balanced & porportional.) I get 630mg K in supplements and take ~530mg Mg in the form of Albion magnsium byglycinate caps.

    This is got me nicely though a Sunday of housework, yard work and ice skating with energy left over... no muscle aches.

    Please add your electrolyte tips, favorite products, MTHFRade recipes and questions below and we can try and figure it out together.
     
  2. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  3. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    I'd throw in chloride and phosphate, although those don't seem to get out of balance as much as do sodium potassium and magnesium.

    I'm starting to wonder if low stomach acid is preventing people from getting the magnesium/sodium/potassium from foods, which leaves supplements the only main source.
     
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  4. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Apart from (or in addition to) that, IME methylation protocol can lead to metabolic acidosis.
     
  5. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie

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    Most commercial electrolyte blends do not have calcium. I have tried supplementing Ca and gotten bad effects before. I have read it can be unhelpful for people with a NO/ONOO cycle dysfunction.

    I am not 100% sure, just my experience.
     
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  6. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

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    Yasko writes, that high glutamate results in high intracellular calcium levels.
    Glutamate binds the NDMA-receptor in the brain. The NDMA-receptor helps, to transport calcium in the nerve cells.
    High calcium can attack cell structures, this could result in excitotoxity.
    With nerve inflammation we should be cautios with supplementing calcium.
     
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  7. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    If we are supplementing Magnesium shouldn't we be taking some Calcium? Or at the very least looking out for Calcium deficiency symptoms assuming they can be distinguished from the pack of normal symptoms.
     
  8. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

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    Calcium should only be supplemented if there is a deficiency according to whole blood analysis. People with chronic inflammation very often have to much calcium in the blood, including me and other friends.
     
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  9. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie

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    @jepps My experience matches what you describe. I tried adding a modest amount of calcium (1 tablet - maybe 500mg) and I got excitotoxicity and the Chvostek sign
     
  10. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

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  11. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Wow that's 3.2 grams of magnesium. I know most people are hesitant to go above a gram, although your body should be able to tolerate it if you're deficient.
     
  12. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie

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    How you you all feel about the d-ribose and creatine in the MTHFRade...?

    I think the ribose is relatively harmless, I was on 10g daily for months.. although I prefer to be off it and have my body making its own ribose.

    I do wonder about the creatine? Do you think its safe to take for people with CFS week systems? Any concerns about kidneys?
     
  13. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    I've used creatine for a while, and 10 grams is a bit excessive as a daily dose, that's more of a loading dose people use when trying to build muscle. Eventually you become saturated and the maintenance dose becomes 3-5 grams a day. I think it's good to supplement not only for the boost in ATP but also for cognitive benefits.

    Creatine has never raised my serum creatinine much, nor did it affect my BUN from what I can see.

    I would say 3-5 grams of creatine. What about adding some NADH?
     
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  14. pela

    pela Senior Member

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    I have been using Seeking Health Optimal Electrolyte for about 3 months. My understanding is the dose of d-ribose is too small to have much effect.

    I got orange flavored the first times and mixed a scoop with 16 oz of water. Last time I got berry flavored and need to mix it with a quart, or liter. IMO the berry flavor is way too sweet, actually pretty awful. If Seeking Health made an unsweetened version I would buy it.

    There is not enough potassium or magnesium in one scoop to get me through an average day. I still supplement with potassium chloride as needed. I'd have to eat 3000-4000 calories a day to get enough potassium from food.
     
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  15. Gyre

    Gyre

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    My electrolyte recipe is as follows:

    Mixed in one litre of fluid, generally a combination of water and water kefir to add probiotics.

    -D-Ribose 5g
    -Creatine 5g
    -Lo Salt (potassium and sodium salts mix) 5g
    -Vitamin C powder 5g

    Extras I use at times:

    -Lugol's Iodine 2 drops
    -Liquid Selenium equal to 200mcg (always using the selenium if I use the iodine)
    -Trace minerals emptied from gel cap
    -Great Lakes Collagen Hydrolysate (gelatin that mixes even in cold beverages without gelling) 1 TBS
    -Zinc drops

    I've been using this recipe with variants for a year and a half. Before I added AdoB12, I desperately had to have to D-Ribose to have even minimal energy. Now it still helps, but my day doesn't collapse if I don't have some.
     
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  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I have learned from @ahmo several ways to balance electrolytes :love: : foot or hand soaks, baths, shower scrub.

    Bicarbonate is an important electrolyte and after oral magnesium, is the one that helped me most with pain, sleep, breathlessness, hormones, acidity.:thumbsup:

    Once I added calcium carbonate to a foot bath and slept really well, but my calves felt congested :confused:. Then I kept trying to figure out how to have more circulating calcium without supplementing it. I took 10,000 iu vit A 1x weekly for 5 weeks and that did the trick. Now I add calcium carbonate to my tooth paste and it has been working really well.:smug:
     
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  17. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie

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    @Gyre

    Great electrolyte tips! Just the kind of information I was looking for.

    Nice to know you can get (66% potassium, 33% sodium) LoSalt doses for a pennies compared to overpriced $20 bottles of electrolyte concentrate. I am going to test it and see how it works for me.

    How much do you drink per day? During exercise (if applicable)?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  18. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Where do you get your bicarbonate from and how much do you use? I'm with you on magnesium being one of the only things I can actually feel. But in my case it's lowering cortisol.
     
  19. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @drob31 I know you didn't ask me...;)...I get my bicarb in bulk from a supplier of salts in Aus, organic. The reason I'm chiming in is because I'm beginning to have questions re bicarb. I've been using it for nearly 3 years as part of the GAPS detox protocol Recommended as baths, but I quickly switched to FBs. I still haven't followed links I have to further understand bicarb. But it's been in a few threads recently, and I'm wondering if it's also helping me absorb other ingredients I put in my footbaths, including aminos, minerals, Vit C. I don't know, just something I'm starting to think about.:confused:

    http://drsircus.com/medicine/sodium-bicarbonate-baking-soda/whats-bicarbonate-soda-baking-soda

    Also a few other articles from dirsircus.
     
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  20. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I have posted a couple of warnings re sodium bicarbonate here.
    @drob31 I also buy it in bulk locally (mine is not organic)
     

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