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Methylcobalamin Inhalation Therapy

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by bluewhistled, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. bluewhistled

    bluewhistled

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    Hey guys this is my first post, but it's probably going to be long, please bear with me.

    I've experienced heavy brain fog, depression, derealization, chronic fatigue, etc, etc, yada, yada since I was 16-17 years of age. I'm now 28. I've always had anxiety, around the age of 14-15 I discovered I could temporarily silence it with alcohol. Soon there-after the other problems came. I tried to fix it by quitting drinking, exercise, etc, nothing helped and I would often go back to drinking as a way to feel better. This was obviously a terrible idea but it was the only time I felt any better, brain fog would even clear up at certain levels oddly enough. The main problem with my coping mechanism (besides the unknown pernicious anemia it was causing for over a decade) was that my hangovers would be so excruciatingly bad that I would often not be able to function for multiple days after a night of only a few drinks (4-6).

    I had tried different supplements throughout the years to no avail, including Jarrow 5000 mcg (that's microgram, there is 1000 micrograms in a mg, so please stop saying you take 5000mg I've been seeing that often and it's confusing/incorrect) methylcobalamin. I was eating them too quickly however, as I never noticed an improvement with them except for that the sores under my tongue I would occasionally get would disappear within minutes of taking it. Later on I decide to try a sublingual spray on a whim which contained about 500mcg per spray. I took it without noticing anything. One day after a visit from an old friend and a night of partying I woke up with a list of obligations and a hangover so bad I couldn't get out of bed. Out of desperation I tried everything to make it feel better. At some point I sprayed probably 10 sprays of that methyl b12 under my tongue and held it for as long as possible before my saliva washed it away. Within about 45 minutes I was playing with my dog and running around the house with him, I was still hungover but I like to refer to it as "a normal person hangover". Now my interest in mb12 was piqued. I studied, learned about intrinsic factor, how I destroyed it with drinking, etc, etc.

    I needed to find an alternative way, a more bio-available way, of taking this without having to spend exorbitant amounts of money and requiring prescriptions/etc. So I researched the best alternatives to injection. I discovered the nasal spray method, which was the first time I noticed improvements outside of sublingual dosing. Just an FYI, not all sublingual sprays will work as a nasal spray, many contain chemicals that will hurt and burn your sinuses. After taking it for a few days at 1500mcg per nostril a day my hands and feet quit being cold all of the time, I started feeling some emotions and even small glimmers of excitement. I realized this could continue to get better and that the damage may not all be permanent. Next up on the best ways of taking mb12 without a needle: inhalation.

    First, you may want to read this research on b12 inhalation and how it's almost as effective as injections. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2248818/pdf/tacca00127-0101.pdf) Also how none is excreted through urine like a sublingual or oral dose, instead it's pretty much all used except for what isn't captured in your lungs. As little as 100mcg a day inhaled is highly effective and comparable to injections. Personally I inhale about 325mcg a day for various factors including that I don't know how much has broken down to hydrocobalamin by the time it's dissolved in water in a lab to the time I'm evaporating it, also due to the fact that b12 isn't toxic in any dose, also I like to over due everything that I safely can.

    To do this you'll need an atomizer, which thanks to the electronic cigarette revolution you can find in most gas stations or "vape shops" around or just online for really cheap. I suggest one with a tank or 'clearomizer' and a decent size battery. Next you just need some pure mb12 in some vegetable glycerin (a safe vaping chemical which is in electronic cigarette liquid) and you're off. Make sure you keep it all hidden from light, that is the liquid, and your ecigarette tank, I use electric tape on my glass tank. The research article suggests you do a hard exhale, then a slow deep inhale with the vaporizer, and then hold as long as you can, and then exhale slowly through the nose. This technique works wonders. What I could not ever achieve with weeks of sublingual and nasal dosing I get in 15 minutes of inhalation.

    With my mix half a tank (.75ml) is 325mcg and I can inhale it all day keeping my plasma levels completely saturated. After two days of doing this I feel the mb12 effects constantly now, it must have built up in my liver already. I now only inhale it in the mornings. You will notice (if you're mb12 deficient) the effects almost immediately. I started feeling dizzy like I do when I take a TON of mb12 sublingually/nasal. The first time I inhaled it after about 5-10 minutes I felt like I had taken 500,000mcg of mb12 sublingually (speculation as I've never taken that much). I like to imagine the feeling I get is comparable to what I'd feel if I had a b12 injection, but I can't say for sure as I've never had one. After discovering this I decided to search online for others who may find this information useful and after two days of waiting for my account to be accepted here it is!

    Here again, is the research on the subject: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2248818/pdf/tacca00127-0101.pdf

    Feel free to ask me any questions, I am in the beginning stages of methylation so I may not have all of the answers. Most of what you need will be in the research link above. Also I'm not a scientist, I did not do this study, and I cannot guarantee the safety of it. Hell I'm not even suggesting it's safe, although the research article plainly does. All I can say for sure is that I've noticed no ill-effects on my lungs or lung-capacity since starting this and it seems to work about 100x more than sublingual pills and 10x more than nasal sprays, once again my subjective/speculative opinion.

    Enjoy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @bluewhistled I am fascinated! What is your source of "pure mb12 in some vegetable glycerin"?
     
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  3. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    What Ahmo said this sounds very interesting!
     
  4. bluewhistled

    bluewhistled

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    Sadly I don't have one in just VG. Some websites sell overpriced ecigarette eliquid that supposedly contains b12. But I don't trust them.

    Alternatively I have found a source of pure Methylcobalamin in pure water. I mix that 50/50 with Vegetable Glycerin which you should be able to get anywhere. I get the mb12 in water here: http://www.bio-alternatives.net/b12.htm

    It's 60ml with 1000mcg per ml. Mixed at 50/50 that dilutes it to 500mcg per ml. So .75ml (or half of my tank) equates to about 325mcg of mb12 a day that I'm inhaling and is passed directly into my bloodstream.

    In case you care to make the e-liquid a bit more palatable, you can add some flavor to it. I purchase my flavor concentrates from: http://wizardlabs.us/index.php?route=product/category&path=79_85

    You can make 20% of the mixture a flavor concentrate and it makes smoking the whole tank something you want to do as opposed to a chore. I personally use energy drink at 20%, but this is entirely unnecessary. Without it the vapor will taste like nothing at all.

    I originally tried vaping just the pure mb12 and water and it doesn't seem to work. The atomizers need a certain consistency I believe. Once I added the VG is when it started to be effective. Plus the VG gives a "smoke" look to the vapor you're inhaling/exhaling which helps confirm that I'm actually inhaling anything at all. Be sure to shake your concoction before each tank refill.

    As far as the ecigarette gear goes. I bought a Vision Spinner 1100mah battery, a charger, and a Kanger Mini Protank 3. It cost me about $40 at litecigusa.net

    I hope this helps you guys.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
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  5. JalapenoLuv

    JalapenoLuv

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    Sublingual has high absorption so I think it's preferable to just go with the 5,000 mcg tablets and skip all the hassle with atomizers, etc. Also remember that some atomizers have been found to contaminate the spray with heavy metals.

    I was going to add some info on B12 side effects but at 1500 mcg its such a low dose it isn't necessary.

    I take about 75,000 mcg of CYANOCOBALAMIN sublingually per day and haven't had side effects.
     
  6. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @bluewhistled Since you're adding flavor, and using a commercial B12 in water, it seems to me that dissolving a sublingual tab + glycerine should work. Worth a try.;)
     
  7. bluewhistled

    bluewhistled

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    No there are preservatives in tablets that are perfectly find to ingest but you would absolutely NOT want to inhale. The flavoring I'm adding, while certainly has its risks, is meant for the "vaping" community and is considered benign when inhaled.

    If I could obtain pure mb12 crystals then I could make a concentrated eliquid but really what I'm using currently is working perfectly for me and I have a ton of it. At $0.26 a 5000mcg Jarrow tablet versus the $0.05-$0.10 I'm spending for .75ml of 325mcg directly inhaled at a potency multitudes greater, not only am I saving money but I'm getting more out of it. Plus if I ever feel low in mb12 one quick inhale and I feel it within minutes. Also no stained teeth or pills under my lips :)

    EDIT: I just looked up the "other ingredients" in jarrow's tablets: Xylitol, Cellulose, Stearic Acid,(vegetable starch) Natural Flavors, Citric Acid, and Magnesium Stearate

    If you follow my recipe (less the flavoring) you will only be inhaling Water, Vegetable Glycerin, and Methylcobalamin (and whatever forms of b12 any light sources have broken the mb12 down into).
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
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  8. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Thank you Thank you!!! I see the B12 folks have an international phone line, so they ship OS. I'm on to it. This sounds great to me.:)


    Add: I'v just checked iherb, they have a few sublingual B12 drops. I was holding off an order yesterday, waiting to hear from you. I'll check out the ingredients in these drops, maybe order one of them.
    http://www.iherb.com/search?kw=sublingual B12 liquid&sug=sublingual b12&x=0&y=0#p=1
     
  9. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Hi, please be careful with the high dose cyano. Rich Vank had reported someone who got cyanide poisoning from taking a lot of cyano B12.
    http://phoenixrising.me/archives/13738
    If that happens hydroxycobalamin can be taken to get rid of the cyanide.
     
  10. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    The drops sold by iherb all have citric acid. Doesn't sound like a good idea.
     
  11. JalapenoLuv

    JalapenoLuv

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    Thanks for your concern Caledonia. There is a lot of misinformation and fear mongering with cyanocobalamin that is designed to sell methylamine pills. Even at this level I have no symptoms of cyanide poisoning. Zip. So it is a bunch of nonsense. The only reason to not take cyanocobalamine is if you can't convert it due to a genetic problem. Otherwise you're just wasting money.

    According to this website there is no maximum value of Cyano B12 and firefighters actually inject enough to make 10 g (vs my max daily dose of 75 mg) with no problems.

     
  12. bluewhistled

    bluewhistled

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    Yeah I mean it really depends on how much citric acid but since they don't disclose it better safe than sorry.

    I've never heard that about atomizers. Regardless I also use mine for nicotine and I'm not really worried about it. I don't know what you mean about the 1500mcg, I'm only vaping 325mcg. What you don't seem to realize is that when inhaled you get all of it into your bloodstream. When you take it sublingually you're barely getting anything. So 325mcg inhaled > 75000 mcg of cyanocobalamin sublingual. Especially since cyanocobalamin isn't an active form of b12. It has never done anything for me. Please read the research and you will see proof that it is highly effective, on par with an injection. Except you can dose as frequently as you'd like with near instant results. Unlike an injection which you would only want to do at most once a day. Or sublingually which takes hours to kick in the small amount that it does.
     
  13. shannah

    shannah Senior Member

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  14. bluewhistled

    bluewhistled

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    @shannah Potassium sorbate is fine for a nasal spray, but the VG isn't. I tried it, not only did it burn like hell (which I could live with) but it also caused my sinuses to flare up after a week to where I was instantly congested and runny nose after spraying. By that point I quit getting any b12 from it. If you want a NASAL spray use this: http://www.nbnus.net/shopexd.asp?id=338 it's expensive but works great.

    Also to clarify the purpose of this post "MB12 Inhalation Therapy" was not to suggest a nasal spray, but atomizing/vaporizing. They are vastly different in the type of liquid you need, the administration, and the bio-availability.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
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  15. JalapenoLuv

    JalapenoLuv

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    This is totally false information spread on the internet. Sharabi found that sublingual B12 was just as effective as injectable. The liver converts cyanob12 to active so conversion isn't an issue either in normal people. Yes using activated B12 is faster but I don't think the conversion takes that long because I usually feel less stressed about 10 minutes after doing it. To save 50% on supplements I'm fine with that.
     
  16. caledonia

    caledonia

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    If you don't have MTR or MTRR mutations then you're probably fine. I assume you've had your SNPs tested and you know this for sure?
     
  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @bluewhistled, your experiments with B12 atomization and inhalation into the lungs are fascinating! It's an excellent innovation! Thanks for posting this.

    I can see that this technique might become one of the preferred ways to administer B12.

    It makes me wonder what other supplements or drugs one could could atomize and inhale. Obviously this will only work for medications whose doses are in the mcg range, because you would not be able to smoke a dose of say 500 mg of a medication.

    Welcome the the forum, by the way.


    I don't know if these are of any use to you for your vaping purposes, but the following range of B12 liquids are much more concentrated than usual (though they do contain additional ingredients):

    Hydroxo-12 from Scientific Botanicals. This B12 hydroxocobalamin liquid only contains one other ingredient, potassium sorbate, and is very potent at 1 mg (1000 mcg) per drop, having 325 such drops in the 15 ml bottle. Most other liquid B12 is much weaker, at 1 mg per each 1 ml dropperful, not per drop. Hydroxo-12 can be bought at various places.

    Then there is adenosylcobalamin, methylcobalamin and hydroxocobalamin liquid drops from Holistic Health International. These are also potent at 1 mg per drop, but they contain citric acid, which may sting.

    I actually put two or three drops of the Hydroxo-12 liquid into each of my nasal cavities by placing a pipette into my nose with my head titled right back. This is a very good way to absorb B12. You can use the Hydroxo-12 liquid intranasally in this way, but don't try putting any B12 liquid containing citric acid into your nasal cavities, as this will likely sting.


    Incidentally, if you still are suffering with anxiety symptoms, the anti-anxiety protocol detailed on this thread has proved very effective for a number of members of this forum.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
  18. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    You are assuming people are taking B12 to prevent deficiency and supply their B12 vitamin needs. However, this is not the only use of B12. You can take very high doses of B12 for its metabolic effects, which goes beyond its role as a vitamin.

    Different forms of B12 have different metabolic effects. B12 hydroxocobalamin can be used to scavenge for nitric oxide, and it is the only form of B12 that can do this. B12 methylcobalamin has been shown to promote nerve regeneration in conditions like peripheral neuropathy, so if this is your goal, you would want to take this specific form of B12.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
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  19. JalapenoLuv

    JalapenoLuv

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    1. You don't want to scavenge nitric oxide, it is signalling molecule.
    2. 75 mg/day is a huge dose.
    3. Cyanocobalamin is converted to methylcobalamin by the liver so it also promotes nerve regeneration.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2014
  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Only about 1% of cyanocobalamin is converted into methylcobalamin, so if methylcobalamin is what you want, it would be very inefficient to take cyanocobalamin.


    Nitric oxide is a signaling molecule, but NO is also generated by the enzyme iNOS at levels 1000s of times higher than the levels used for signaling.

    Are you not aware of Professor Martin Pall's "NO/ONOO" theory, and the use of hydroxocobalamin to scavenge nitric oxide? See the following:
     
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