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ME/CFS: A disease at war with itself
We can all agree that ME/CFS is a nasty disease, particularly in its severe form, but there are abundant nasty diseases in the world. What is unique and particularly confounding about our disease is that so much controversy surrounds it, and not only surrounds it, but invades it too.
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Methylation and Rapid healing!

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Martial, Feb 15, 2014.

  1. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Hey guys, I was posting this as a success story that happened for myself upon using fred's methylation protocol!

    I was recently for the past year and a half dealing with a very severe case of lyme, including issues with my nervous system, tendons, bones, brain, and muscles, a classic full body infection combined with co infections, the worst symptoms and most worrisome for me being hypo perfusion and inflammation of the brain, causing severe behavioral changes, sleep cycle changes, dementia, and even psychosis..

    I am currently also under the care of a local LLMD who is helping to treat the lyme..

    I started using Fred's protocol about a month back to help treat my issues and had run into several methyl traps and became increasingly frustrated with my rapid mental and physical decline, for a short period I was really concerned I would be institutionalized for the psychotic/dementia symptoms before getting onto a correct self healing treatment..

    I had run into a bunch of issues with folate deficiency, potassium deficiency which almost stopped my heart and a few other things, the folate deficiency which raised inflammation added to the herxing inflammation from abx treatment of the lyme... This was easily the most scary and trying time of my life as I knew if inflammation increased to greatly it would kill me, or put me in a coma.. I had used a whole host of anti inflammatories like bio active curcimin, and fermented fish cod oil, along side an anti inflammatory diet, if I wasn't I shudder to think what could have happened..

    For the lyme treatment I was first treated with high dose oral Ceftin, then high dose oral Amoxy, and then my own herbal regiment of Prima Una De Gato, Grape Fruit Seed extract, and several essential oil treatment herbs..

    I finally fixed all the issues I was having with methyl traps and had rapid healing occur almost overnight! At first when treating the lyme I would always have really severe herxes to even minimum doses of herbs or pharm grade abx...

    After fixing the methylation issues and removing some methyl traps I was not aware of like the Glutathione pre cursor the methylation system fired up instantaneously.. I then had some issues with potassium deficiency but I promptly took care of it after the symptoms with a ton of potassium intake of foods, and the brand name NOW potassium chloride supplemental powder..

    after correcting the methylation issues I am surprised to say that almost all of my lyme symptoms are dissapearing.. I woke up for the first time in a LONG time with normal energy and feeling like I actually slept.. I had normal energy through out the day and no more severe cognitive issues and the like.. I took pretty high dose herbal abx to treat the lyme and also barely even herxed! I know wonder the reason why some people herx and others do not possibly being due to methylation issues? Herx reactions release a lot of ammonia from bacteria kill off, so without proper methylation for detox its no wonder some people can get so over toxic and herx so hard!

    As of now I am sure I still have some degree of brain inflammation and hypo perfusion from infection, as well as some various other issues in other parts of my physiology, sometimes this all takes time to resolve as the infection is eradicated but I definitely feel like this infection is finally clearing way and rapidly!

    The reason I ran into methyl traps was actually because I continued to use protein bars which I thought were safe because they did not contain folic acid, however they did have whey which caused partial methyl trap, compounded on top of this was the other methyl trap. Riboceine, a supplemental glutathione pre cursor.. I know I even recommended it to some on here with my treatment protocol, I did not realise it was causing methyl trap though and promptly made an update post saying to discard the use or purchase of it on my original riboceine thread..

    After about a couple days of finally removing the riboceine the methylation process just kind of jump started very powerfully and almost out of nowhere..

    My personal use was bi weekly injections of methyl b12, and 15-30,000 mg of methyl b12 on non injection days 5,000-10,000 mcg of methyl folate a day, 3,000 mg of ado b12, and 500 mg of L carnatine..

    Also going to add in phospholipids soon on Radio's suggestion, The NT NO factor brand. I think this will also help a lot!

    I was using very high doses of the protocol to fully penetrate and heal the CNS system, perhaps this is why the start up was so immense and the potassium demand so much, and quickly.. I also dealt with the severe emotional changes that occured with the methylation start up but just tried to breathe through it all.. It was quite manageable with me even at the high doses thanks to all my mindfulness practice!

    Anyways I just wanted to post and let others know of how much methylation helps not only in CFS/M.E. but also all chronic illness like my late dessimated stage of Lyme..

    I would note people be VERY careful when doing methylation for lyme though, the pre existing inflammation combined with folate deficiency inflammation is a very dangerous combo. There must be strong prevention of methyl trapping and very proper AWARENESS for that!

    I hope you all are doing well and find this info very useful!


    One other thing that I believe benifited me the most was proper diet which is such a HUGE component! Many do not realize the nutritional toxins we feed ourselves everyday and knowing what they are can lead to much needed healing on all levels, especially those with M.E.

    Here is where I get my nutritional info and tips, in my opinion one of the few sources I trust for REAL nutritional advice and tips.. I am very backgrounded in fitness and nutrition so am no noobie to reading nutrition and understanding the underlying applications and functions that happen from proper diet, basically it makes it easier to smell out the BS advice as well! lol

    http://chriskresser.com/

    Just go through the site and try to read as much articles as you can!

    here is the 9 steps to perfect health series specifically!

    http://chriskresser.com/perfect-health
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
  2. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

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    I am so glad for you. Your advice to visit Kresser is top notch. Your rapid healing WAS predicated on your diet.Both the "healing" portion and "rapid" portion were predicated on that diet. I experienced the same rapid healing, though digging myself out of a much shallower hole. Diet is almost totally disregarded on this web site. Check the archives and the list of recent posts. Nothing or almost nothing. about diet. That is the reason for the vast majority's lack of any healing, let alone rapid healing. Also buy some NT Factor asap/. I noticed profound energy/bowel movements effect within 24 hours. Once again. Good job!
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
  3. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
    Star-Anise likes this.
  4. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Yes absolutely! Nutrition is one of the biggest components for sure! How can you get better if you are still consuming toxins that probably lead up to getting sick in the first place?! All these recent issues with rising chronic disease definitely seems to correlate to some kind of issues in food supply, mainly all this stuff they add in now that gets people horribly compromised and susceptible to a whole host of medical issues... The faulty issues with "normal" western diet and rising levels of environmental pollution's/toxins and it is no wonder the world keeps getting sicker...


    Already bought the NT factor too ;)

    Thank you Radio! Thanks for posting the link! I believe the info you posted is also one of the missing links for a lot of peoples recovery!
    Radio likes this.
  5. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Edit, My current new protocol.. I know it has definitely changed since the previous one, I had to toss some things that actually did harm like Ribociene, only because it interferes with fred's protocol otherwise it works great!

    Bacteria killing- Prima Una De Gato (toa free cats claw, different version of Samento), Banderol, and Grape Fruit seed extract, Wild Oregeno Oil, Some essential other essential oils

    system support protection/free range radical expulsion - Neuro Protek, Zeolite/Zeolite HP, Parsely detox, Burbur Detox, Pinella Brain nerve cleanse.

    Inflammation response- TheraCurmin, Fermented fish cod oil, source naturals glucosamine chondroitin complex with msm, Biogenesis Inflamezyme, some essential oils, STRONG DIET.

    General Immune system help/Adrenal help/ HPA axis regulation- Liposomal C, Vitamin D as needed, Myco Potent Immune Complex, bio citrate magnesium, few times a week I use Jarrows B right complex, Adaptocrine.

    Methylation protocol- Methyl b12, ado b12, methyl folate, L Carnatine Fumarate, Healthy aging NT factor, and Potassium supplements to help methylation.


    Non supplemental support

    Dry brushing and saunas for added detox, epsom salt foot baths, earthing, meditation and stress reduction techniques. Having other things added soon by LLMD

    Note* A large portion of my treatment plan is using parts of the Cowden protocol, combined with my other resources, I would probably just do the full protocol but too expensive :/

    here is a link to the full cowden protocol

    http://www.nutramedix.ec/ns/lyme-protocol
    Star-Anise, Hanna and Radio like this.
  6. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Martial,

    Yes, The world's economy is built around keeping people sick and docile. How many more kids need to suffer with autism before we see the light. It's time to identify these man made environmental poisons and take back are life's before it's to late.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
    Martial likes this.
  7. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Really happy to hear someone is having some success on here, man. may you continue on to full and vibrant health.
    Radio likes this.
  8. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

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    st pete , florida
    I'm going to bump this thread, just so see who will join in our evidently'very small" CELEBRATION for Martial. Its as if David Ortiz hits .688 in the World Series and four Bostonians come out for the Duck Boat Parade. And that includes David as on of the four!( International CFS Nightmare Sufferers and non-baseball fans may need to Google David Ortiz and/or Duck Boats to grasp the pathos involved in this situation. This man is the David Ortiz of the CFS World (at least of the day!). Where is the love???
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
    Martial likes this.
  9. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Clear Light
    The love is here I am just not sure what I am reading.

    I tend to block out all information on methylation.

    If the gyst of it is your feeling better Martial,

    Then I am 100% for that - brilliant news. :)

    Brilliant.
    Martial likes this.
  10. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

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    Good answer. Actually fascinating. Why do you block out "all information on methylation"?
  11. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

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    He also mentioned Diet (Paleo Diet).
    Martial likes this.
  12. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    haha thanks for all the accolades! I never really had CFS per say but chronic lyme disease though equally as challenging and debilitating lol, sometimes even deadly if I didn't seek treatment or watched symptoms..

    Umm well it wasn't just methylation, there were a few things; first being methylation, then the cowden protocol for lyme and chronic illness, which seems like it would work equally well for M.E., and then the diet which is a modified paleo version based on my own personal needs, things like kefir goat milk I would add in, or yams which is technically not paleo.. I got the template from Chris Kresser's site and just made my own personalized program while avoiding the big offender toxin nutrients, also needed to do hypo allergenic, and anti inflammatory for some things..

    Then there is the other useful supplements I added for myself on the side, some for oxidative protection, Immune system help, Adrenal fatigue repair, and the few other things I did on the side for detox...


    Lol thanks for all the support again!

    Again Radio you are so right! This society is built around a ton of misinformation and ignorance on proper nutrition, really its the perfect system to keep people ill, and in need of the big pharm company drugs which is more money in the drug companies pockets.. On the flipside I find it hard to believe any system would want to keep people in poor health and deal with all the issues due to lost wages, less consumerism, eventually people can't afford medicine lol.
    shah78 likes this.
  13. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

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    Not only are people unable to congratulate you, they can't even hear/read /understand what you saying. In fact the people who profit off sick people and even the sick people themselves would prefer to have you fail or atleast vanish. Isn't that really creepy! .........I tell you. You and Radio and Freddd have really inspired me to get out of my shell and RAISE SOME HELL. THANKS
  14. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    At first it was due to severe neurological problems. Then as I further tried to get a thorough understanding of the topic, which I believe is vital to do it as safely as possible, I caused myself trauma.

    So I shelved it. After this, I realised that I would never be trialling supplements like this because i am very sensitive to supplements, and some pretty severe side effects can be had (i am a scaredy cat) and I fundamentally b/elieve in nutrition alone. I have included a dab of sporadic supplementation.

    And so understanding methylation fell off my radar.

    :)
    lef07003 likes this.
  15. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

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    @golden I appreciate your response.
  16. ajw13

    ajw13

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    You are lucky martial, i have tried multiple times to get methylation going but after 3-4 days of just 1,000mg of methyl B12 i start getting sore joints and massive fatigue. I have tried all combos including alcar, methyl folate, methyl b12, adenosyl b12. I just don't seem to tolerate methyl or adenosyl b12 at all. I am actually going to try hydroxy b12 soon. I have started taking riboceine for a week under a naturopath's care and so far i am feeling much better. I have tried taking NAC but i get neurological issues within a day.
  17. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Hey guys sorry I should make an update to this, very old post for me.. To be honest I have been doing a bit worse lately and at times I literally feel like I am not gonna live through my illness, my brain feels too far gone still and my nervous system and heart feel like they could just stop my heart beat any minute now.

    Now this doesn't mean I am suffering, I am feeling fine just that my symptoms are pretty serious right now regardless. When I made the post I was not recieving full treatment for my problems yet "late stage Lyme and co.". I have gotten very efficent with my methylation protocol and it has stopped a lot of major symptoms but a lot of things seemed to tumble much worse since getting on an actual treatment plan to bring down my bacterial load and get into a healthy body state again. We will see what happens, it is very normal to be worse with treatment apparently, though I disagree with this and am gonna pull away for a different approach Via. Buhner/Jernigan protocol. They both state that although its an up and down process you should be getting better with treatment not falling deeper into the rabbit hole.


    I believe I may be killing off more bacteria then my body can handle so I am just trying to slow things down and see where it goes. Fred's protocol however has been very useful and I have found since making this thread that i did suffer some gene mutations and since fixed it quite remarkably. My problem now is this infection is very deep within my system and no matter how strong my immune system is there is no saying what can happen, my only hope is that I can survive this and reach out to help this world for the remainder of my life like I always planned. Even before becoming sick I was very heavily involved in showing this world an inner transformation of enlightenment and ending human suffering.

    We will see what now will bring, however I am not with fear of death. I am that I am.

    Love,

    Todd
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  18. Graeme

    Graeme almost there...

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    Sorry to hear you're not doing as well. I too am dealing with Lyme and co, though I have an ME/CFS presentation as well. Definitely pull back on the killing and help with the clearing of toxins. All the really experienced and successful Lymies I've communicated with say the same thing. Klinghardt talks about alkalizing the system to slow the killing, and of course this method also decreases inflammation. Baking soda accomplishes this quite well.

    I've had recent success with biophotons and nosodes for Lyme and co. It actually works. For me what's made the most difference is moderate avoidance of mold combined with babesia treatment. I'm guessing, based on the work I've read of various doctors, that it's improving cerebral perfusion. It certainly feels that way.
  19. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Thanks man, I am familiar with them too, gonna go extra hard on the de toxing for sure!
  20. Antares in NYC

    Antares in NYC Senior Member

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    Hi Martial,
    Congratulations on the improvement via methylation, and sorry to hear that you have experienced some setbacks recently.

    I wanted to ask you if you are seeing any doctors in particular for methylation, or if there's a way to figure out the methylation traps. Like you, I've been dealing with broth ME/CFS and chronic Lyme. I started the simplified methylation protocol two weeks ago, on top of the multiple medications I'm taking to treat Lyme (omnicef, metronidazole, erythromycin, etc) CFS (Famvir), a gluten-free diet as suggested for Lyme, and many supplements suggested for support of the gut and the many vitamin/mineral deficiencies doctors caught.

    If anything, I would say I've been feeling worse: all ME/CFS symptoms have worsened (crushing fatigue, sleep disruption, concentration and brain fog, etc). Any recommendations on what to do here? I feel really toxic and nauseous too, so I wonder if I need some sort of detox or chelation method. I know they claim you'll feel worse before you will start feeling better, but this is just horrible. Not sure if herxing has something to do with this, but I have to say I've been feeling borderline non-functional, almost brain-dead at times.

    Anyway, hope you continue to improve and appreciate any advise or recommendations. Thanks.

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