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Lancet: KCL- Mortality of people with CFS: a retrospective cohort study (extra suicide risk)

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Esther12, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(15)01223-4/abstract

    Mortality of people with chronic fatigue syndrome: a retrospective cohort study in England and Wales from the South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust Biomedical Research Centre (SLaM BRC) Clinical Record Interactive Search (CRIS) Register
    Dr Prof Simon Wessely, FMedSci, Prof Trudie Chalder, PhD, Dr Chin-Kuo Chang, PhD†, Prof Matthew Hotopf, PhD†

    Also a comment that says nothing much of interest (to me) here: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)00270-1/abstract

    Suicide risk in people with chronic fatigue syndrome
    Nav Kapur, Roger Webb

    This point was worthwhile, but had being referred to in the article too:

     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
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  2. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I only gave this a quick look. The paper is full of bits explaining the massive limitations of the study, and tbh, I'm not too sure why they did it.

    We were cited:

    Not the most revealing reference.

    You could try stopping the quackery? Maybe that would help?

    Someone had to have made the decision to use that code over any alternative.

    But the increased risk of suicide was found in patients who'd had a robust psychiatric assessment, and access to the biopsychosocial 'care' at KCL. Why would these patients being at increased risk of killing themselves mean that more of this should be done?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
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  3. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Daily Mail article on this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-sufferers-6-times-likely-commit-suicide.html

    Were these patients failing to get the correct assessment and treatment at KCL? What is the correct assessment and treatment?
     
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  4. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    I'll bet the suicide rate at these NHS clinics is significantly higher than, say, Dr Peterson's or Dr Klimas' clinics.

    Since they like to do mediation analyses, how about calculating how many suicides were mediated by Sir Simon's rubbish treatments and general abuse by society?
     
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  5. Mark

    Mark Former CEO

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    For the headlines?

    The more serious CFS is, the more money they all get. When appealing for funding for CBT and GET practitioners, stuff like this probably comes in handy. That said, I have no doubt whatsoever that the suicide rate in ME/CFS is high.

    I thought Wessely didn't do CFS research any more. Was that a dream?
     
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  6. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Need an RCT! Also, I expect patients are harmed by the social impact of Wessely's work regardless of the clinic that they're at.
     
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  7. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Not very interesting, but just thought that this could be worth quoting in response to White's claims that 'recovered' CFS patients should be expected to have high levels of fatigue and disability due to co-morbidities.

     
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  8. Large Donner

    Large Donner Senior Member

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    So nearly 50% of people who had ME died from cancer, almost 25% from other causes and yet there's no mention of it being a neuro immune disease, just the usual spin towards assessing peoples mental health?


    F**K, referrals to oncologists, immunologists, virologists etc just get them all in front of a shrink. :bang-head:

    How many of these people who committed suicide where hanging on for dear life being totally abused and ignored by the medical profession.

    It seems that if over 70% of people in the study died form cancer and other causes there's masses to learn for a better direction for this illness?

    No one can see it though?

    We all know Wessely and his cronies are useless but also where the hell are brains of the journalists who write up these articles from such a study?
     
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  9. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    Oh, now you are suddenly aware of and wish to emphasise the distinction between correlation and causation.

    How convenient. :meh:

    Arse-covering? To be seen as concerned for this issue?
     
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  10. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    yes, that's EXACTLY what it's about
    it's part of a larger action/behaviour to avoid the prosecution for their criminal abuse and frauds
    you muddy the waters, "Oh we were only trying to help!"...etc
    seriously, I'm surely not the only person who's dealt with an actual manipulative sociopath, and knows how the bastards behave?
     
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  11. SDSue

    SDSue Southeast

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    The sociopath will tell you who they are. Just pay close attention to the things they accuse you of - those are the things they themselves are guilty of doing.
     
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  12. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    The message here from truly yours sir Simon is...
    If these people are suicidal, then they have a mental illness and are in need of psychiatric care to prevent suicides.

    They are protecting their work all the way. Lancet is giving him the air time. All is 'well' in SW world...(well that is except what Jc and DT wrote about him) (And the patients)

    Extra CBT to prevent suicide. Imagine that...another reason for family dr to refer to psychiatry for every pt diagnosed with ME/CFS. Imagine that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
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  13. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    All roads lead to CBT in the Modern Church of Psychobabble.
     
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  14. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member

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    So they picked a time-frame in which epidemiologists have already found to have had an increase in suicides related to the economic decisions of the Government?

    Is this mentioned in the paper? Does this mean anything?
     
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  15. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    This reads like they are trying to find a way to justify more CBT, forced GET and sectioning, just in case it's soon shown that those things don't make us better, we still need them to stop us killing ourselves, so we've got to have them even if we mistakenly don't want them.

    The whole thing is to form a connection between the words "M.E." and "suicide" in the public perception. All the details and caveats will be forgotten, even if included in media reports. Even the sentence "M.E. doesn't lead to suicide" leads people to connect the two words and forget the "doesn't". They are just establishing a future area in which they can operate, and know exactly what they are doing. "Sick" doesn't even begin to describe their behaviour.
     
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  16. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    way it's going for me, I've known suicide is an almost certainty for past two years, one reason I've been getting worse is living with that knowledge, blech.

    Screwed over by DWP and ATOS, increasing distress from this damn illness, and I will NOT be forced out of my home except in a body bag.
    Not what I'd wish, but I didn't knuckle under for literal bloody psychopaths and gangsters, so I refuse to go out in silence because of these verminous, cowardly shytebags!

    Only online thanks to generosity and help of my aunt, and a friend gave me food.
    the evil scum running our country are quite happy for us to die off quietly
    well I will not go along with their plans


     
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  17. Gijs

    Gijs Senior Member

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    These authors are also responsible for the high suicide rates among ME-patiënts . They make them much more sick and try to make them mentally 'grazy', with their CBT/GET regime. Also it is their fault that there is no money for biomedical fundings. But they think that they are good people try to help mentally ill ME patiënts. These people have a very bad karma and one day they will pay for it.
     
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  18. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    I imagine that the suicide rate is increased in many "biological" conditions. It is a pity they don't refer to this fact. The discussion of only psychiatric and similar conditions creates a connection between CFS and psychiatric conditions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
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  19. PennyIA

    PennyIA Senior Member

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    Actually, let's rephrase this. Suicide rate is probably increased in many "biological" conditions when the patient is ignored, abused and treated as if they aren't worthy of any medical treatment.

    I can imagine that if we did a review of AIDs suicides in the years where it was slighted it would be high as well.

    If there WAS an effective and proven treatment and we had access to it, I'm pretty sure 90% of us would jump on it.
     
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  20. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    Indeed. Here's an article from the NY Times, March 1988:

    - source: http://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/04/u...d-to-have-an-extremely-high-suicide-rate.html

    On the happier side, here's a summary of the findings of a study in suicide among HIV patients published in 2013:
    - source: http://www.aidsmap.com/Suicide-rate...-high-in-Danish-one/page/2782078/#item2782080

    Must be all that CBT they're getting.
     
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