Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Lactobacillus Fermentum: a probiotic that creates/recycles glutathione, improves heart health

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Basilico, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    Lactobacillus Fermentum is a probiotic that just appeared on my radar. I haven't tried it yet, myself, and I couldn't find any threads on it here, so I'm wondering if anyone knows about it or has any experience with it.

    The main reason it's piqued my curiosity is that it appears to create and recycle glutathione. Since it is widely hypothesized that CFS/ME folks are deficient in glutathione, perhaps having a deficit of LF could explain why levels are too low. We know that CFS/ME and GI problems often go hand in hand. My husband has a noticeable improvement when he takes liposomal glutathione...perhaps supporting the gut flora that can create it endogenously is even better than supplementing it.

    Despite the "Lactobacillus" name, this particular probiotic is not found in yogurt, but I have found it available in capsules on Amazon. LF was isolated from the GI system of Estonian kids (much like the E. Coli Nissile 1017 - Mutaflor - was isolated from the GI system of a German soldier who was the only one in his troop to not get sick from a water-born pathogen).

    From some research I've found:

    It has been established that L. fermentum strain ME-3 has double functional properties: antimicrobial activity against intestinal pathogens and high total antioxidative activity (TAA) and total antioxidative status (TAS) of intact cells and lysates, and it is characterized by a complete glutathione system: synthesis, uptake and redox turnover. The functional efficacy of the antimicrobial and antioxidative probiotic has been proven by the eradication of salmonellas and the reduction of liver and spleen granulomas in Salmonella Typhimurium-infected mice treated with the combination of ofloxacin and L. fermentum strain ME-3.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2670518/



    It also seems to have a beneficial effect on the cardiovascular system:

    Eight weeks of consuming kefir with the antioxidative probiotic L. fermentum ME-3, reduced serum LDL-C, ox-LDL and TG values in clinically healthy volunteers with borderline-high lipid profile indices. Thus, L. fermentum ME-3 has potential to lower the risk of CVD that is tightly associated with maintenance of plasma lipid profile.
    https://bmcnutr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40795-015-0020-z
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
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  2. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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  3. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    If all milk kefir (especially home made) has this probiotic then maybe that explains why my sensitivity to light emitted by computer monitors has lessened somewhat since I starting consuming kefir. Liposomal gluatathione has the same effect. I still take, and benefit, from the liposomal glutathione, and notice a more beneficial effect from it than the kefir.
     
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  4. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    Unfortunately, no kefir or anything fermented naturally has Lactobacillus Fermentum. This particular study used kefir as the delivery method; one group received kefir that had added Lactobacillus Fermentum while the control group received kefir without any Lactobacillus Fermentum.

    It's cool that you are having positive effects from kefir! It's just not due to LF.
     
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  5. TenuousGrip

    TenuousGrip Senior Member

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    Interesting stuff. Happens to be in the probiotic I'm currently taking.

    Is it doing anything good for me ? Who knows ......
     
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  6. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    @TenuousGrip , what probiotic are you taking that includes LF?
     
  7. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    If you look on page three of the PDF "Chemical and microbiological aspects of kefir" you'll find that Lactobcillus Fermentum is listed. It's also commonly listed on sites that provide information about kefir such as this one.

    There is also this document that found 90 strains of LF in "traditional dairy products" of Tibet and other regions. I found that document in a footnote of this one about Tibetan kefir grains, so I'm assuming that those traditional dairy products include Tibetan kefir.

    Maybe it's only the ME-3 specific strain that isn't found in fermented products (although the "fermentum" in the name looks like a sure sign it's related to fermentation).

    Why do you think it isn't in anything naturally fermented? (I'm too brainfogged to read the documents you linked so I apologize if the answer is found in them.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  8. TenuousGrip

    TenuousGrip Senior Member

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  9. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    That info you posted looks interesting, I will check it out soon!

    I haven't heard of it being in anything fermented because it was isolated from the GI system of Estonian kids. But who knows...maybe it's found in multiple sources?
     
  10. kgg12003

    kgg12003

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  11. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    @kgg12003 that's a great link - that's where I first learned about Mutaflor a few years ago. I didn't realized he mentioned LF on that website, too!
     
  12. NotThisGuy

    NotThisGuy Senior Member

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    where can we buy this magical probiotic?
    Im from europe and would be happy if any one can suggest a brand or vendor.
     
  13. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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  14. NotThisGuy

    NotThisGuy Senior Member

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    Yeah i have checked them. Besides mutaflor germany isn't that probiotic country it always seems from a foreign point of view.
    I think our health care is even worse than USA. (statistics says otherwise, but in USA you can at least buy supplements for good prices. In germany everything costs much more and lots of stuff isn't even available here. Also not a single good CFS specialist here)


    Only product I found:

    https://www.shop-apotheke.com/arzne...7751/&ef_id=V2FcggAABVpDPHJq:20170626011533:s

    But this contains also Lactobacillus delbrueckii.

    Since i seem to have mast cell issues and definitely have histamine issues I can't risk to take any random probiotics.
    My gut is very sensible....

    Since you have some knowledge about probiotics. Do you know any probiotic strain that can increase dopamine?
    Always when i manage to push my dopamine levels up my gut becomes so much better and stable...

    I can buy from any vendor in the EU by the way.
     
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  15. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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    I was looking at the Dr. Ohhira's Probiotic and found this interesting bit of info on the website:

    Ingredients are fermented and processed for three years using 12 strains of lactic acid bacteria. All strains may not be present in final product.

    Well, that's not helpful if all strains may not be present! Gee whiz!
     
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  16. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    I sent you a PM.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  17. echobravo

    echobravo Keep searching, the answer is out there

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    > it is characterized by a complete glutathione system: synthesis, uptake and redox turnover

    Could anyone explain what "redox turnover" means in this context?
     
  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I read about LF a couple of months ago when this review was published. It is on my list, but I haven't ordered it yet because it stimulates Th1 (which might not be an issue). When I order probiotics again in a few weeks I will also trial this one.
    Interestingly it is the only country I have visited that made my gut healthy (traditionally fermented rye bread? - back when I still ate gluten).
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
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  19. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    I just ordered (and received) this same one. We're waiting until we do the uBiome test again (the first one apparently got screwed up?) so as soon as that is done, we'll start in on this probiotic and hopefully have some positive news to report. I hope others who are trying it update, as well!
     
  20. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    2 week update:

    My husband has been taking this probiotic every evening for about 2 weeks at this point. Today we realized that yesterday he did some stuff that would usually wipe him out, but he was actually feeling relatively decent. He also had a beer and didn't feel it at all, which is quite unusual because lately he has been reacting even very small amounts of alcohol. I think this is a sign his liver is functioning better, but still too early to tell for sure. So far, it does seem like the probiotic is starting to do something, and he is feeling more convinced about continuing to take it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
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