The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Is taking BH4 a problem for COMT++ ?

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by Peyt, Apr 21, 2015.

  1. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    Hi
    I am reading all kinds of confusing info about BH4. From one side, I see that Dr. Yasko has made a note on my UAA test(due to semi high Ammonia I assume) to take BH4 , but knowing that she normally does not look at the whole picture when recommending supplements I am very cautious .

    The reason is, as I understand, BH4 also helps convert Tyrosine to L-Dopa which will eventually convert to Dopamine... Well in my case I have COMT++ , so wouldn't that be harmful ?
    Your thoughts and recommendations are appreciated.
     
  2. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Highly doubt anyone here has a more comprehensive grasp than Yasko! Causes a lot of detox right?
     
  3. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    VERY harmful! And painful as @ppodhajski said elsewhere.
     
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  4. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    I never said she does not have the knowledge, but knowing and applying the knowledge are 2 different things...
     
  5. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    So what do people with BH4 deficiency and COMT++ suppose to do? are we out of luck?
     
  6. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    The one million dollar question...
    The MAO-A cofactor is riboflavin, so this is supposed to spare some BH4 as it helps with the breakdown of neurotransmitters. I don't do well on it since I suppose my serotonin is down regulated already.
     
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  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    FMN is the version of riboflavin @ppodhajski is using and recommended. I'm going to try it soon, in hopes that this might be the answer to my ongoing oxidative stress issues.The linked Source Naturals product is 18mg.

     
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  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Where does it say that taking BH4 is harmful for people with COMT mutations?
     
  9. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
    Plenty of BH4 feeds serotonin and dopamine synthesis, and +/+COMT means a slow breakdown of those neurotransmitters. I suppose a build up of neurotransmitters, besides being painful in the nerves, can induce a downregulation and the person will produce less S and D.
     
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  10. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

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    Never better said.
     
  11. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

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    You are right on Gondwanaland! But it is that your MAOA is a very fast enzyme and that breaks down serotonin quickly. Adding FMN is adding fuel to the fire.
     
  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    It is??? I thought that MAO A R297R rs6323 TT +/+ implied a slow breakdown of neurotransmitters :confused:
    I even got serotonin syndrome from 25mg of 5-Htp!
     
  13. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

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    First, taking these "products" is, in my opinion, never good for anyone. You should only be taking the cofactor for the gene you have an issue with. But this should only be down with the furthest downstream gene in the pathway.

    Second, there is a reason you are low in BH4, that is because your COMT genes are bad. The body is smart and in balance. But our diet and environmental stress effects us differently based on these SNPs.

    The only SNPs that are worth supplementing are the antioxidant SNPs. And other SNPs you supplement are to reduce the oxidation. So for me, COMT is treated with magnesium and MAOA MAOB with FMN. This lowers oxidation. Next I treat my CBS, GAD1, SUOX, SOD1, SOD2 and GPX . Result? Complete recovery.
     
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  14. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

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    Yes, ugh, sorry, been looking at genes too much today. I corrected it. I was thinking of your MAOB genes, where you get the Parkinsons from.
     
  15. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    wow, I just took some riboflavin (actually, the active form, riboflavin 5 phosphate) and I feel so much more relaxed, and LESS STIFF.... Since I saw your post on MAO-A, I'm wondering what it has to do w riboflavin... Can you explain it to me? Is it a co-factor to MAO-B, as well?
    thanks.
     
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  16. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Here's a comment from another thread:
     
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  17. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    True, that :) B2 & Magnesium are wonder supplements!

    What is FMN? Is it better than active b2 (riboflavin 5 phosphate)?

    What is the benefit of low amine diet? what is low amine diet?
     
  18. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

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    FMN = flavin mononucleotide = riboflavin 5 phosphate = coenzymated B2

    Riboflavin is a cofactor for the MAOA and MOAB enzymes. Well, actually FAD is the cofactor, but riboflavin turns into flavin mononucleotide (FMN) and then into flavin adenine dinucleotide (FAD).

    By taking FMN we are only one step away from FAD and we save some ATP in the process.
    For the full riboflavin pathway see:
    http://smpdb.ca/view/SMP00070

    For people with CFS and have low ATP so this is important.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2680051/

    Why does this help you relax and lessen your stiffness? I don't know exactly, but I am guessing that it reduces oxidative stress by changing how catecholamines are broken down in the body. If you want to read a long paper on the process see:
    http://intl.pharmrev.org/content/56/3/331.full.pdf html

    Basically, by speeding up MAO we remove O2 from the cell and create H2O2. Removing O2 from the cell lowers the chances of creating superoxides forming in the cell. (Superoxides are created when and electron is added to O2) Hydrogen peroxide is not as bad as superoxides.

    (COMT helps reduce catecholamines but to a lesser extent and in different area in the body. It had more to do with lipid catecholamines)

    Since SOD turns superoxides into hydrogen peroxides and SOD SNP will keep even more superoxides around. And then bad GPX SNPs will have a hard time getting rid of the hydrogen peroxide.

    oxidation.png

    And that is what I see in many of these diseases; MAO, COMT, SOD, CAT, and GPX SNPs.
     
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  19. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

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    Missed this. A low amine diet is very important in all this as well since MAO breaks down biogenic amines as well. Eating more amines will deplete you of riboflavi, inhibiting your MAO enzyme even further. This is why people on MAO inhibitors are instructed not to eat certain cheeses high in tyramines.

    The first thing I did was go on a low amine diet and things changed rapidly. Since amines are not really measured in foods this is not an exact science. But it is more about reducing amines not totally eliminating them.

    The best list I found was here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...DlvM1VtYTNuTEREekRCSGJWQXhXSFE&hl=en_US#gid=0

    from http://aminerecipes.com/low-amine-grocery-list/

    Another huge source of amines could be your tap water. It took me years to figure this out because my skin would change from bad to great when I visited different cities. Turns our some cites treat their water with amines: Chloramines. It is a combination of chlorine and ammonia. I have had four other people with MAO snps and are sensitive to chloramines.

    For more about how this is effecting people see:
    http://www.chloramine.org/
     
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  20. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

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    Hey Hip,

    I was reading some of your history and saw that you had good luck taking flaxseed oil. I did too, this is why:
    Flaxseed oil reduces oxidative stress and enhances brain monoamines release in streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats
    http://het.sagepub.com/content/early/2015/02/08/0960327115571765.abstract

    To me taking FMN is much easier/cheaper/safer.
     

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