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I'm SICK of this. No gut motility, and misinformation on acetylcholine

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by South, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. South

    South Senior Member

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    Southeastern United States
    Per Wikipedia:
    "cholinesterase" breaks up (destroys) acetylcholine by turning acetylcholine into acetic acid and choline.
    And:
    "cholinesterase inhibitors" prevent cholinesterase from breaking up (destroying) acetylcholine.

    Nightshade foods are "cholinesterase inhibitors". Therefore, eating them would logically INcrease the levels of acetylcholine in the body. In other words, nightshade foods should RAISE the levels of acetylcholine in the body.

    RELATION TO THE GUT:

    Acetylcholine is needed for enough gut motility - I'm talking to people who have too-slow gut motility. Ordinary constipation people need not apply. This thread is for people with slow motility only, not helped by all the "wonderful" remedies for regular constipation that do nothing for slow gut motility.

    People with slow gut motility (NO, this is NOT the same thing as constipation) might not have enough acetylcholine in their guts doing what acetylcholine is supposed to do there: speed up gut motility.

    Those people "might" get some help with this slow-motility problems by eating more nightshade foods, as long as they don't have the type of joint problems that some people get from nightshades.

    The friggin internet is rife with misconceptions. I just saw a site on which people said nightshades CAUSED their slow gut motility, erroneously stating that it must because they are inhibitors of cholinesterase.
    Wrong. that cannot be the reason, per the above logic. Nightshades may be causeing that individual person slower motility for some other reason unique to that person, it cannot simply be "due to being an inhibitor of cholinesterase"
     
    Wayne and Oberon like this.
  2. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Acetylcholine and its signalling mechanism is just one factor involved in delayed gastric motility. It's a very complex process involving hormones, enzymes, pressure and stretch receptors, neuro and muscular signalling etc but in those with slow motility, confirmed with doing a 4 hour Gastric Emptying Study (Gastroparesis), the one constant to explain delayed stomach emptying in the two biggest groups to get this, Diabetic and Idiopathic Gastroparesis, is the finding of greatly reduced number of Interstitial Cells of Cajal (ICC) which power the motor centre of the stomach for slow wave peristalsis, seen in studies taking full thickness stomach biopsies.

    Antibodies to acetylcholine receptors can be responsible for slowed motility (Autoimmune Gastrointestinal Dysmotility, Autoimmune Autonomic Ganglionopathy) as can a premature breakdown of acetylcholine which is seen in some autoimmune conditions (Myasthenia Gravis springs to mind) and some people with Idiopathic Gastroparesis do get good benefit from taking Mestinon which is the main drug many Neurologists will throw at you too if you have other signs of autonomic dysfunction too. GI doctors are getting more into prescribing this too when other measures have been unsuccessful.

    Parasym Plus, Iberogast and Tryphala are some supplements that I have seen mentioned as being helpful for delayed GI motility.

    There are a myriad of reasons for slowed motility. Connective tissue disorders related to autoimmune conditions are a biggee, Sjogren's, Sclerodrema, Lupus, Ehler's Danloss, Mixed Connective Tissue Disorder, many of which still have a finding of reduced number of ICC's in the pathology.

    Mine is caused by not enough blood flow to the bowel from microvascular intestinal ischemia which also causes a reduction in ICC numbers. This type of ischemia rarely gets diagnosed but according to the medical literature, this is widely documented to occur in many people with GI dysfunction (even just IBS) but there is no specific test for it. There are a number of GI vascular compression syndromes that can affect motility too, something I suspect is part of my picture as well.

    Aspects of acetylcholine were discussed in this thread about gastroparesis;
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ed-stomach-emptying-and-colonic-inertia.2491/
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
    Sundancer, pamojja, Wayne and 3 others like this.
  3. South

    South Senior Member

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    Thanks Kangasue.
     
  4. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    No worries. I'm a 17 year veteran of having slowed motility from gastroparesis and all the crap that goes with it so I've gathered a bit of knowledge on the subject along the way if you want any other pointers.
     
  5. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Great post @kangaSue,

    Just to add a bit to reasons for slowed motility. I attribute mine primarily to a vagus nerve injury, which I feel got pinched in the atlas of my neck after a serious head injury / whiplash. Also, I've noticed a long and unambiguous relationship between my exposures to toxins and my motility. Even a moderate toxic exposure (like diesel fumes from a truck) can totally paralyze my peristalsis for 1-2 weeks, with accompanying flu-like feelings (sometimes intense). I've often wondered if anybody else has had a similar experience with toxic exposures.​
     
  6. Kenshin

    Kenshin Senior Member

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    My digestion hasn't been right since gettiing ill, feels like food sits around formng a painful lump that takes hours to "go down".

    As a result I have been underweight for many years. Also constipated. It's just wonderful haha.

    I had the 2 hour gastroparesis test with scramble eggs and it showed normal speed of emptying.

    Sometmes if I get a whiff of detergent or household chemical my stomach will feel tight/nausia with a headache, thankfully these effects only last around half hour if I immediately get fresh air.
     
  7. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    Low gut motility can be an issue in thyroid hormons dysfunction as well
     
  8. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Can't say I've noticed an issue with environmental smells causing symptoms. I had gastroparesis start out as episodes of mild gastric flu-like symptoms every few months that become more regular over the course of about 3 years and would resolve with just eating a plain bland diet.

    One day, I started vomiting with it too (early 1999). Only with fat rich foods to start with and then the rot set in over the course of that year to include everything I ate and never to go away again.
     
  9. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    A Gastric Emptying Study isn't an exact science. Your emptying rate can vary by the hour, let alone day to day, so you can be having a good day or just going through a "purple patch" in your day and have the test return a normal result.

    I've had six emptying studies now, 2 were normal, 2 were moderately delayed and 2 severely delayed but they haven't occured in that order. Best thing to do is challenge your system with things you know will upset you just prior to the fasting period before the test.

    Be aware that constipation alone can be due to having Autonomic Neuropathy (AN) and this can also affect your GI motility. AN also often affects vagus nerve function and a Heart Rate Variability to Deep Breathing test is a good autonomic test to have to see if there is cardiovagal dysfunction as a sign of having AN.
     

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