The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
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Help with nutreval Interpretation

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Doublepush, Oct 4, 2014.

  1. Doublepush

    Doublepush

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    Hi all,

    this is my first post but I've been following the forum for a while. I have been sick now for little over a year after a marathon run. Or actually I was similarly sick also ten years ago for two years but recovered. I have mostly PEM and exercise intolerance. I was also recently diagnosed with Lichen planus and my wife says I smell bad like an old alcoholic..

    Any way, I just did the 23andMe and Nutreval tests.

    On the nutreval test the most alarming seems to be that succinic acid is below detection limit. Glutathione is the normal side. I had started Fredd's protocol couple of weeks before the Nutreval test so that may have had an impact on some of the values, like glutathione level. I did however stop all supplements one week before the test.

    Can the methylation protocol lift the succinic acid level? Or are there any supplements that can directly lift it? I appreciate if anyone can give their opinion.
     

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  2. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem All Good Things Must Come to an End

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  3. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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  4. UM MAN

    UM MAN Senior Member

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    This sounds like fungus overgrowth.
     
  5. Doublepush

    Doublepush

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    Thanks for your replies.

    UM MAN, can you explain why this sounds like fungus overgrowth? The
    Citramalic Acid is little evalted on the Yeast / Fungal Dysbiosis Markers but the others are low. I have had Athlete's foot also and it was helped by medications from GP. Still my feet smell very bad so I'm not sure if the problem is still there.

    Here is an analysis I made with the Caledonia's Nutreval interpretation guide:

    Malabsorption and Dysbiosis Markers

    Dihydroxyphenylpropionic Acid (DHPPA) 8.0 (<= 5.3) High

    any elevated markers in this section means you have bacterial dysbiosis


    Citramalic Acid 3.1 <= 5.8 Quite high

    any elevated markers in this section means you have yeast/fungal dysbiosis


    Cellular Energy and Mitochondrial Metabolites


    Lactic acid 2.4 - a little low. Indicates that this path way is not running very fast. A low carb diet could be one possibility.” I don’t follow a low carb diet. Maybe I should I based on this?


    A drop between Citric acid and the next to metabolies. A little drop. Indicates glutathione depletion. First part of Krebs cycle might be running slow.


    α-‐ketoglutaricacid(AKG)if this is high relative to the metabolites in the Krebs cycle before and after it, this suggests that it is being fed by glutamate, and that the flow from AKG to succinic acid is partially blocked. The latter could again be due to low magnesium or B vitamins,or to mercury toxicity.


    This might be due to all the listed reasons. Getting magnesium and b vitamins supplied and the mercury out should help with this.


    SuccinicAcid 0 (0.4-4.6)–A low value indicates that you aren't burning aminoacids as fuel at a normal rate.This is likely due to low B2, lowB6, and/or low biotin.


    Fatty Acid Metabolism


    FormiminoglutamicAcid(FIGlu) 1.3 (<= 1.5) a little high

    –If this is elevated, it indicate a low tetrahydrofolate(THF). The low THF indicates that there is a partial block in methionine synthase, which links the folate metabolism with the methylation cycle, and that your folates have become depleted. FIGlu can be masked by low histidine, B2 and maybe B6. Check this against sarcosine(AminoAcids/Glycine/SerineMetabolites). A high value for sarcosine would be consistent with low THF. Elevated FIGlu is consistent with glutathione depletion.

    Sarcosine is not high, but FIGlu is still little elevated.


    Pyroglutamic Acid 15 (16-34) -A low marker indicates glutathione depletion in the kidneys and/or intestinal cells, which would be consistent with a partial methylation cycle block and with vitamin C deficiency.


    Histidine 326 (271-993) A little low. Folate
    deficiency


    If ratio of glutamic acid (14) to γ-‐aminobutyricacid (4) is high, this will make you feel anxious and wired. (Glutamicacidisstimulating;γ-‐aminobutyrica cid is calming). The low γ-‐aminobutyric acid relative to glutamic acid would be consistent with excitoxicity, which would contribute to sleep problems. It can also cause anxiety, a "wired" feeling, and hypersensitivity of the senses. The low γ-‐aminobutyric acid could be due to low B6 functional availability as P5P, owing to low B2.


    α-‐Amino-‐N-‐butyricAcid(ANBA) 10 (9-49)– if this is low it is likely due to low glutamine (NonEssentialProteinAminoAcids). An elevated marker indicates alcoholism.


    Glycine 515 (434-1,688)-‐ if this is low, it will limit the production of glutathione.


    Tricosanoicacid 0.19 (0.12-0.18)

    if this is high, it’s consistent with a biotin deficiency and/or a functional B12 deficiency.


    A drop from γ-‐LinolenicAcid(GLA) to Dihomo-‐γ-‐LinolenicAcid (DGLA) (there is a drop) means that the elongase reaction is not working well. This is likely because of deficiencies in one or more of the B-‐complex vitamins, including biotin.


    Oxidative Stress Markers

    Glutathione 1,020 micromol/L (micromol/L>=669)

    (whole blood) – if this marker is low, it indicates low glutathione. However, if it measures high, it doesn’t necessarily mean that glutathione is high in the tissues. This is because it only measures the amount of glutathione in the blood, which doesn’t reflect the level of reduced glutathione in the tissue cells. In this case, you should refer to the other indicators in this test to see if glutathione is low.


    Not very low but may have risen due to Fredd’s protocol. Or maybe the tissues have low glutathione. At least there are markers that indicates this.


    Toxic Elements


    Mercury 0.0067 <= 0.0039 mcg/g – if this is elevated, it suggests an on going exposureas mercury only stays in the blood for few weeks. This can be due to mercury amalgams or fish consumption. Never had amalgams but I eat some Salmon two times a week so that might be a reason.

    Summary

    So in summary I guess I should try to deal with the possible fungal overgrowth, bacterial dysbiosis and also do the methylation protocol. Once these are in place mercury should also go away. I will also try to eat less salmon.
     
  6. UM MAN

    UM MAN Senior Member

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    my wife says I smell bad like an old alcoholic..

    Hmmm. Well unless you are an old alcoholic, where is the alcohol coming from? Where all ethyl alcohol comes from, FUNGUS.
    Have you done a LEAKY GUT Test?
    Tried an anti-Candidiasis Diet (it is draconian)?
    Does any values look funny in a standard blood panel?
    How much alcohol and simple carbohydrates do you consume?
    Have you ever been on a long course of Anti-Biotics? Which ones? How long? When?
    Have you run your 23
    andME data through VALENTIJN's (rare Snp detector)?

    Valentijn, if you see this, do you now process X and Y Chroms??
     
  7. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I had low succinic acid too and did vitamin E succinate (dry E) to support that. It's also helpful for SUOX/CBS sulfur issues. After doing methylation for awhile, I was able to discontinue this supp, verified by muscle testing.

    The glutathione on the test is a combination of oxidized (the bad kind) and reduced (the good kind). So you can't really tell anything about glutathione unless it's low (which means both kinds of glutathione are low). The typical pattern for ME/CFS is high oxidized and low reduced.

    So according to your results - #1- get a stool test to see further what's happening with your gut. See the 4R Gut Rebuilding Program in my signature links below for more info on stool tests and then a program to fix your gut. Get as far as you can with that before starting methylation. Working on killing off the bad gut bugs will start to eliminate mercury (and other metals).

    Some salmon is better than others for mercury. Trader Joe's has a canned wild caught salmon which is supposed to be mercury free.
     
  8. Doublepush

    Doublepush

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    Very good questions UM MAN! I have not done a leaky gut test or tried any special diet. Standard blood panel is quite normal. Only fasting glucose have been a little high sometimes.

    Half a year ago I was on some antibiotics to cure Mycoplasma (two weeks, don't remember what one that was). It did not help with my symptoms but I have not measured mycoplasma since. But the same doctor also gave me some Prednisolone which did help but I guess it is not a good thing to eat that for a long time.

    I use very little alcohol. A month ago i took a couple of beers. I don't think I can tolerate alcohol anymore. The couple of beers made me feel poisoned and I had problems getting sleep. I was not feeling good the next day either. My diet have included quite much carbohydrates, whole grain bread, potatoes, rice etc.

    I was in very good shape before I got sick. I could run a marathon in 3 hours. Now I get PEM if I try to run slowly for 15 minutes.

    I tried the rare snp detector. These were homozygous:

    rs17216887 4 G 1.00 GG Homozygous
    rs28730837 17 A 1.00 AA Homozygous
    rs5763914 22 T 1.00 TT Homozygous

    Will try to research those. Or is there anything else I should look for in the snp detector?
     
  9. Doublepush

    Doublepush

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    Thanks for your answer caledonia. Is there any harm in doing methylation protocol in the same time as trying to fix the gut? I do feel better when taking all the supps.

    The salmon that I have bought from supermarket is farmed and from Norway. I also eat some sushi and salmon in restaurants. No idea where those are from. Probably from Norway. I'm from Finland so I don't think we have that Trader Joe's over here :)

    Also those stool tests on your signature are not available here but I found a test called CDSA 2.0 from Genova that is available here. What do you think about that test? There are doctors here who know about these tests, but none of those know much about CFS.
     
  10. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I don't know if there's harm, but it may not be effective as nutrients may not be absorbed. But if it's already making you feel better, then maybe that's a moot point in your case.

    The Genova CDSA with parasitology seems to be the most equivalent to the others. Have you tried checking with directlabs.com or integrativepsychiatry.net to see if they ship to your country? If so, you can order direct through them without a doctor. Then can also help with interpretation for a fee. You can also use the Metametrix Interpretation I included with the 4R document to interpret the other tests.

    The doctor doesn't have to know about CFS per se if he/she is treating the gut. But you have to be careful that they are using a 4R program. Many doctors will do one or two steps, but not all four steps. For example, many people will go on a low carb diet to starve out candida. This will not be effective by itself. You actually have to kill it off. Some people do diflucan or other powerful antifungals. This may be too harsh and not tolerated.
     

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