1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
A Little Poisoning Along the Road to ME/CFS
Looking at my symptoms, many of which are far less these days and some are gone, it would be easy to figure that I'd just been dealing with some heavy-duty menopausal issues.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Nutreval Interpretation Guide

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by caledonia, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,039
    Likes:
    1,711
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Hi all. I have finally completed an intepretation guide for the Nutreval test. The reason I did this was because I intend to take the test and need a way to interpret it, and there just seems to be a general need for this since Rich has gone.

    I have a background in technical writing, so I'm good at synthesising complicated stuff into something that's hopefully understandable.

    What I did was take all of Rich's interpretations and the tests that many of you have kindly posted and went through all of them very carefully, so I could understand what Rich was thinking. Then I compiled all of them into one interpretation.

    I added a section at the beginning that explains the general concepts of how to read the test and threw in a couple of illustrations. I also added a worksheet section at the end so you can tally up all of various imbalances that show up. And then a short section on Rich's recommendations for further testing and some treatment tips. All the stuff in the middle is Rich's words.

    I am willing to take suggestions on how to make the guide more understandable (more explanation or illustrations, etc.), but I'm sure you understand that I can't become the "Nutreval Interpretation Guru" like Rich was. I'm just a patient and have limited energy like all of you. In addition, I don't have any sort of medical background. Therefore, I can't accept PMs asking for help interpreting individual Nutreval tests. Everything I know is in this guide, which hopefully will be good enough for people to make their own interpretations. So with that caveat, here it is.
     

    Attached Files:

    Ninan, Sidereal, Anju and 21 others like this.
  2. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,493
    Likes:
    3,968
    Midwest USA
    Wow! Thanks for putting this all together and sharing it. A great resource...
     
  3. invisiblejungle

    invisiblejungle Senior Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes:
    62
    Chicago suburbs
    Wow... THANK YOU! :thumbsup:
     
  4. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes:
    582
    Seattle
    Yes, thanks so much Caledonia. Very helpful. I have been thinking about starting a 'how the h-e-double-toothpick do we figure out the NutrEval test' thread for ages, but my eyes have been tiring out too quickly lately -- probably due to something I missed on Rich's original interpretation.

    I would like to add something he mentioned on mine: That a high 3-methylhistidine to 1-methylhistidine ratio probably suggests that one is losing and/or using muscle mass for 'fuel'.

    Quoting RIch: "The latter comes from meat in the diet, while the former comes both from meat in the diet and from breakdown of the person's muscles. If they were both high, that could just be due to high meat intake, but if the former is high and the latter is not too high, that suggests breakdown of muscles."

    And indeed, I lost about 12 lbs of much needed muscle in about 6 months...still haven't gained it back.

    He also commented on a block I had/have at aconitase in the Krebs cycle, which is preventing me from using carbs and fats for fuel. Do you know if that's the same thing that's listed as 'cis-Aconitic Acid' on the Citric Acid Cycle chart?

    Thanks again C,

    d.
     
    EMilo, SpecialK82 and Valentijn like this.
  5. SpecialK82

    SpecialK82 Senior Member

    Messages:
    897
    Likes:
    475
    USA
    Incredible Caledonia - thanks so much!! :)
     
  6. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,461
    Likes:
    3,033
    Couchland, USA
    Wow. Caledonia. Way to go!
    :thumbsup:
     
  7. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

    Messages:
    5,128
    Likes:
    3,398
    N. California
    caledonia Awesome job! I am so glad you like to analyze data.:)
     
  8. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,461
    Likes:
    3,033
    Couchland, USA
    I'm really confused about the Nutreval test. You must get a blood draw and do urine--but the blood must stay frozen?
    Can someone tell me how this works? Also, is it wicked expensive?

    Is this different from doing a UAA and OAT?

    Sorry not processing info well lately. Thinks in advance if anyone can clarify.
     
  9. invisiblejungle

    invisiblejungle Senior Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes:
    62
    Chicago suburbs
    The NutrEval is essentially a combination panel of an OAT, UAA, fatty acids, minerals/metals, and a few other markers.

    It's fairly expensive unless your insurance covers some of it. Around $700.

    You take a urine sample in the morning, then you go to the lab during the day to get your blood drawn, then you ship them together.
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  10. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,461
    Likes:
    3,033
    Couchland, USA
    Thank you , IJ.
    I guess the no-insurance thing rules it out for now

    great moniker, btw. :)
     
  11. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,039
    Likes:
    1,711
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Actually, it's close to $900 from Direct Labs, but I found a 10% off coupon that made it more like $800.
     
  12. invisiblejungle

    invisiblejungle Senior Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes:
    62
    Chicago suburbs
  13. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

    Messages:
    655
    Likes:
    278
    Very nice Caledonia :)

    Sarcosine can also be elevated due to over-driving of glycine-N-methyltransferase as a way to store extra methyl donors.

    I think when 3-hydoxyisovaleric acid is mentioned it may actually be 3-hydroxy-propionic.

    Was the ethanolamine to phosphoethanolamine ratio meant to be 'relatively low' or 'relatively high'? The ranges are very disparate so ratio should always be > 3 or so. I thought the dividing line was a ratio of 8x or so.

    Good work!
     
  14. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,039
    Likes:
    1,711
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Hi D,

    Thanks for your input. I will add your info to the pdf.

    I think that cis-aconitic acid and aconitase are more or less the same thing. Aconitase is the enzyme for cis-aconitic acid and they're bound together. I found the info on this page: http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/611citricrx.html

    If you have a block or dropping off in function there, then according to the citric acid cycle diagram you either have the inhibitors Fl (fluoride), Hg (mercury), As (arsenic), and/or Sb (antimony) or you have a deficiency of GSH (glutathione) and/or Fe (iron).
     
  15. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,039
    Likes:
    1,711
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    It looks like I can't edit my original post any more. So here is the new version of the Nutreval Interpretation with Dannybex's info regarding muscle wasting.
     

    Attached Files:

    Sea, RosieBee and Little Bluestem like this.
  16. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes:
    582
    Seattle
    Hi Caledonia,

    I'll check out that link, thanks so much!

    I'm going to at some point post a pic of my NutrEval krebs cycle results...to show some of the other holes and 'drop-offs', like where it goes from 'normal' levels of AKG to almost zero succinic and then NO fumaric acid.

    But am 10 days away from moving -- first time in 11 years -- so am especially "busy" and beyond worn out -- and it might take me awhile to recover. If I survive, that is... :sleep:
     
  17. LynnD

    LynnD

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    D
    do you know what causes the high methylhistadine and what reduces it?
    seems recall reading about hi and lo histamines or histadines in a paper about
    mental health issues and helps, some of the people were from TPTC (the Pfeifer treatment center).
    Thought had gained back weight but went to a smoothie snackbar that does body impedance measuring and said I
    had lost another 4lbs. wonder how accurate its various measurements were.
    Notice after eating the golden fat off the chicken I get hungry (am not usually hungry or thirsty).
    Have you found foods and physical that helps gain muscle? I've been able to do more yard work lately
    and it helps me feel better if dont overdo.
    Thanks for ideas of what to try or careful of.
    Lynn D
     
  18. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes:
    582
    Seattle
    Lynn -- it's a block in the methylation cycle that causes it. Could be many factors involved in that block. Haven't quite figured it out, but am currently looking into thiamine (B1) deficiency as well -- especially since I typically have no appetite, almost no stomach acid, and the muscle loss -- three main symptoms of thiamine deficiency.
     
  19. LynnD

    LynnD

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    D
    Thanks, I take B1 sometimes extra and seems to helps with brain working better.
    Take supplements out of capsule and just use some of it, if like the vite B1 has rice flour in it,
    spit it out after a minute or 2hoping gets absorbed(heard under tongue and sides of mouth can do that ).
    Have you found info to reverse aconitase to get more use out of carbs and fats for fuel?

    Maybe I 'll B1 more often, and hope it doesnt cause weight loss (noticed that w MB12)
    Thanks
    just got an email from 23andme they are sending kit.
     
  20. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes:
    582
    Seattle
    Hi Lynn,

    I'm not a doctor, but from what I've read, the B1 shouldn't cause weight loss. In fact, some have hypothesized that anorexia may actually be a B1 deficiency condition, because proper digestion needs sufficient B1, especially for carbohydrate metabolism and appetite, and so if one becomes severely deficient -- then 'anorexia' may be the body's way of saying 'uh, nope. Can't digest that...can't eat that now...'

    ???
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page