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Extremly bad reaction to b12, please help!

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Stebor, Mar 22, 2015.

  1. Stebor

    Stebor

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    Hello all,

    I'm new here, but I really need your help and expertise. This week I decided to start and try Fredds B12 protocol, and started tuesday. I've been taking a multi vitamin + extra magnesium for a while, so I just started by adding a 1/4th of a 1000mcg of methylcobalamin.

    So on thursday, I got over eager because I felt it went really well, and took almost 1 whole pill, which I definitely shouldn't have. Around mid afternoon I almost passed out. I had really bad dizzyness, nausea and shortness of breath.
    I panicked and thought that must be because of a lack of potassium, so I ate a couple of bananes and took around 500 - 600 mg of potassium gluconate.

    That seemed to help a bit, and I felt better after a couple of hours or so. It scared me so much that I decided it would proberbly be best to back of the b12 for a while, and regain my "balance" and then start up again, at a much, much slower pace.

    But friday, I was suffering from extreme anxiety. I tried to stop it by taking some small doses of Niacin, which helped. Saturday was a really bad day, I almost passed out again, with shortness of breath ect., I kept taking Niacin, but it didn't work at all..

    So today is by far the worst day of the all, because I feel really seriously bad. I suffer from extreme thirst, and seem to urinate A LOT, so I can't seem to keep any fluids in me at all, I feel like I´m completely dehydrated and that scares me quite a bit (I still take potassium). Other than that and nausea, I suffer from the worst anxiety I have ever known. I can't sit still at all, I'm pacing back and forth, and my chest feels like it's on fire. My brain fog is about a 100 times worse than before, and I haven't slept a whole lot since thursday.

    Can all this really come from 3 days of supplementing with methyl b12?? Have any of you tried something similar, and how long do you think it'll take before it's over?

    Sorry for the long post, but please if any of you have any advice or knowledge to share, please do. I'm getting really desparate here, and I don't know what to do at all.

    Thanks

    Steen
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
  2. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    @Stebor

    I am by no means an expert but I have tried methylation supplements in the past.
    And while I can't comment on when your current bad symptoms will subside I would say that if you want to continue with B12 therapy because you feel it will help you then perhaps you would be better off trying the HydroxyB12.

    My understanding is that the trick with methylation is finding the right mix of co-factors. I'd start with a good Magnesium supplement.

    Hope your symptoms begin to subside soon.
     
  3. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    I see you are new. Many of us have serious neurological and cog issues and cannot read stuff if there aren't a lot of paragraphs with the text broken up. I can't read more than the first paragraph so I don't even know if what I said applies to you.

    I can tell you from personal experience that if you have too much metafolin it absolutely can cause all sorts of "mental" stuff.

    I was in a murderous rage so I ate niacin all day until I stabilized then totally backed down with only a small amount of metafolin and started back with MB12 and ADB12.

    I can't think of the doc, look for something @PeterPositive posted is a link to a doc who talks specifically about this. Drawing a blank.

    I see you are new. Many of us have serious neurological and cog issues and cannot read stuff if there aren't a lot of paragraphs with the text broken up. You can go back and edit it if you want. I can't read more than the first paragraph so I don't even know if what I said applies to you.
     
  4. Stebor

    Stebor

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    Thank you for your reply Snowdrop. Event tho another try at methylation isn't exactly on my mind right now. I absolutely agree with you, Hydroxy is the way to go for me, if I ever get back to my normal state.. But thanks..
     
  5. Stebor

    Stebor

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    Thank you for replying Minkeygirl.. Lucklily I didn't get at far as taking metafolin, so all my problems stem from Methylcobalamin.. I'll try to take some more Niacin, and see if it'll help..
     
  6. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    It's always awful when on top of already feeling not well this sort of thing happens. It would be unusual i think if it continued for too much longer. Hang in there. And you're in good company here as many others have had these crappy experiences too.
     
  7. Stebor

    Stebor

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    Thank you, I seriously hope so. Please tell me, are you familier with the extreme thirst? Or the need to keep taking potassium despite stopping supplementing with the methyl vitamins?
     
  8. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    Maybe this link might help:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/niacin-questions.33229/

    If you want to look up any specific information on PR you can do so by going to the forum page and scrolling down to Resources and in the resources section there is a google site search you can use. In this case you might do: niacin overmethylation.
    Hope that helps.
     
  9. Stebor

    Stebor

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    Thank you :)
     
  10. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    @Stebor
    I broke the text into smaller paragraphs.

    Sushi
     
    WoolPippi likes this.
  11. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @Stebor - Extreme thirst and urination are common symptoms of low potassium and one article I read said they can indicate a long-standing problem potassium deficiency.

    http://www.emedicinehealth.com/low_potassium/page3_em.htm
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/92806-symptoms-potassium-deficiency/

    How much potassium are you taking? My potassium tanked pretty badly after starting methylfolate. I'd been taking methylcobalamin for a long with no problem, though no noticeable benefit either. The methylfolate markedly increased my energy and then a few days later I was hit with a terrible fatigue, low potassium. Luckily I knew what it was thanks to Freddd's warnings. But the interesting thing was that that the low-potassium fatigue was very familiar, I'd had it before only I never knew what it was. It took a long time but I finally realized I had a long-standing potassium deficiency. I now take 1000 mg. of potassium gluconate a day, and sometimes in addition a glass of low-sodium V8 which has 900 mg. of potassium. It's a low calorie way for me to get a lot of potassium.

    So I think it's quite likely you need more potassium, you might try the V8. The low-sodium kind has 900 mg. potassium per 8 oz., and regular V8 has 500 mg. The important thing I've read about increasing potassium intake is to do it gradually. Don't start taking 1000 mg. all at once, titrate up to it gradually. And you very well may need more than I do. Also, I read that low potassium can cause anxiety as well.
     
  12. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    Stop taking potassium, take sodium/natrium asap.
    Your body is telling you it has sodium shortage. Your thirst, dizzy and nausea sounds like low adrenals scrambling for sodium, causing low blood pressure, more peeing and cortisol anxiety. And nausea is low cortisol = insufficient stomach acid = nausea.
    please stop taking the excess Potassium. It's meant to be a balance with sodium.

    Regarding your B12 reaction:
    Yes this is normal. Don't be alarmed. Give your body time to expell all the waste you've dumped into your bloodstream by taking too much B12 and jumpstarting some cell processes that have been dormant for very long. It's all understandable and it's unpleasant but no damage done.

    Drink water (with some salt perhaps)
    Move your body gently
    Stretch and yawn gently
    Make sure you poop, preferably dark which is bile which contains the most powerful chemical waste of your body. You can increase bile by making your stomach more acid. With lemon juice, diluted vinegar or HCL

    It will take a while for your body to calm down.
    You now experience how brain chemistry reacts to metals and other elements you've released into your system. Don't be alarmed by feelings of anxiety, despair or wiredness, these are all physical symptoms, not psychological moods.

    You now have valuable knowledge. Next time you'll take a different approach. Less. Slower. And prepared for symptoms.
    I'm at 100-250 mcg B12 once every two weeks and never got that intense reaction again.

    Beware that some other supplements may cause a dump like this too. Zinc is one (causing a Copper dump). For me artificial Vanilla flavour is one. Garlic too. Cooked egg whites. Progesterone defficiency. Vit D defficiency.

    Not to worry. Try and mount the body waste removal services as best as you can. Ill people have it harder in this but it can be done. Must be done. Just take it easy and don't tax your body with heavy duties in the mean time such as stress, gritty meats, raw vegetables or heavy exercise. Gently stretch and yawn and get thee to the toilet.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
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  13. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    On the thirst: why keep taking Potassium? Shouldn't you have Sodium instead?

    Unless your blood pressure is sky high you need Sodium for the cell membrane to work properly and all your thirst sounds like a classic shortage of Sodium and adrenals in distress because of it.

    Edit: I understand potassium is touted in the Freddd protocol. But remember this may not apply to you personally for 100%
    Potassium and Sodium are an equilibrium, just like Zinc / Copper and Magnesium/Calcium.
    You can't go upping the one without the other tanking.

    Low Sodium (Natrium for non-USA) is something a lot of ill people have. You are taxing your body and especially the adrenals when you are tanking Sodium.
     
  14. Stebor

    Stebor

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    Thank you for your replies. I'm allready taking some potassium, allthough I don't know if it's enough. And I'm quite hesitant to keep upping it, because I'm not taking the methylb12 anymore, and haven't done so for a few days. And I find it quite hard to know how much to take, because I'm allways thinking that the need for it must stop soon.

    I've tried to take more Niacin, which dosn't seem to help at all, so something else must be the problem.

    WoolPippi, Thanks for the advice on sodium, I haven't even thought about that.. Maybe that's the key. I'll definitely try it..

    I'm have an appointment with my doctor later today. Something is definitely so off, that I almost can't function anymore.. I haven't eaten or slept since thursday. And I can't keep any fluids in me.. My anxiety, dizzyness and nausea are through the roof today, and I have to do something. I don't understand it, this is really an extreme reaction to a couple of days on Methylb12, I'll I can do now is hope and pray, that this will eventually pass..
     
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  15. Stebor

    Stebor

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    WoolPippi, I just read your replies again. You seem very knowledgeable about this.. Do you think that I should completely drop my potassium supplements for today, or should I still be taking them with some added sodium/natrium??

    And how much sodium is safe to take?

    I'm sorry to ask all these (maybe stupid) questions, but I'm completely lost and really getting scared here.

    You seemed quite sure that this will eventually pass (which is quite difficult to believe when you're in the middle of it all), but I hope you're right. Have you had a similar experience? If so, what did you do to get over it, and how long did it take?

    If I ever get the courage to try b12 again, it's definitely going to be the Hydroxo type.. Even though right now, I'm not sure I'll ever be so brave again..
     
  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    serotonin syndrome
    what supplement again? never heard of potaxxium oxide
    acidosis induced by too much ammonia from degradation of serotonin excess

    take salt to taste, a foot soak with 1 Tbsp of sodium bicarbonate will do wonders for you

    I think you should follow caledonia's approach "start low and go slow" linked in my signature under "Fredd's protocol"
     
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  17. Stebor

    Stebor

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    Sorry, I ment potassium gluconate.. I was really strugling with confusion when I wrote that...

    If this is serotonin syndrome, then what can I do to help my body to overcome it??

    I'll see if can get a hold of some sodium bicarbonate, I suppose you mean to use it in at footbath??

    And thank you for replying :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
  18. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    please keep in mind, I'm just some internet stranger. these posts are worth 2 cents, not more.

    I think you're in some sort of adrenal stress. In that case stop all potassium.

    dissolve some regular table salt in lukewarm water. Quarter of a tea spoon? just two shakes of the salt shaker in half a cup? It doesn't matter much. It doesn't have to taste awful.
    Take a sip and keep it in your mouth. Don't swallow. Let the sides of your mouth do the take up.
    Rinse, repeat.

    High cortisol (adrenal stress) explains your anxiety, your stress, your insomnia, any wiredness you feel, nausea and excess peeing while thirsty. And can well be caused by the mB12.

    Try to remain calm. It's just a bodily reaction, you're not going to die. Your body is probably in some sort of stress loop where it keeps agitating itself. Your worries are egging this on. Take a deep breath, lie down, you'll get through this.
    Good luck at the Dr.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
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  19. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    sodium bicarbonate is for foot baths. It will help expel waste.

    You also need regular oral sodium, which is why Gondwanaland wrote: "take salt to taste". That's table salt. The not-low-sodium kind.

    your adrenals need Sodium and vit C to produce cortisol, the anti-stress hormone. And they need less bodily stress hence the lie down (= less blood pressure needed).

    Yes, I have been where you are. Not brought on by mB12 but by life stress causing my adrenals flunking out. That gave a real adrenal crisis which can be life threatening. But you sound in the stage before that, when all systems are on full alert and still screaming. So you've got to stop poking the body (with potassium and worries and being upright and starting new supplements)

    The next stage in an adrenal crisis is the danger stage: you start slurring your speech or thoughts. You get giddy. That's dehydration with sodium shortage. You'll know what that happens, don't worry before that. If you're not slurring and not giddy you're not there yet. When you do you need to put something salty and bit sugary in your mouth. I don't care what it is. Potato chip, piece of full fat butter, rice with salt, cookie, anything. Just keep it in your mouth.
    Lie down. Call an ambulance. Take a sip of water.

    But you're still typing and all over the place. So you see, I'm confident your body is still in fighting modus from the stage before danger. It will do the right thing to help you through. Just listen to it. You have doubts about Potassium, that's your body talking. Listen.
    You can't function. So don't. Lie down, it will help your blood pressure and you get more energy to your brain.

    Apart from my adrenal crisis my first mB12 gave an extreme reaction like yours, with lots of feeling good at first and overconfidence and then a few days later anxiety and mental turmoil. That went away.

    please keep in mind, I'm just some internet stranger. these posts are worth 2 cents, not more.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
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  20. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    yes.

    You don't need to aim for an amount, you just want to normalize the Potassium levels that are already in your body. Your kidneys will take care of it if you take too much salt.
    Ballpark: half a tea spoon per day. Perhaps a whole tea spoon. Just go low and slow, you just want the symptoms of Potassium overdose to go away and feel better again.

    Remember: Sodium raises your blood pressure. If that's too high to start with go really slow. Perhaps have Dr. check BP?
    Excess sodium passes through the kidneys. Make sure they have some water to go with that. They're working hard at the moment, don't want to overwhelm them.
    Enemas are another route to get fluids and salt into you...

    I completely understand. It ís scary, your body is bucking underneath you. And you're right to interpret its alarm calls as just that.
    But your mB12-reaction is adding poor brain chemistry to your scary thoughts, which really sucks.
    (I have to confess that with me it lasted 6 days with me, to get rid of that mB12 brain chemistry :oops:)

    So try and disentangle the two.
    1. You have poor brain chemistry from the B12. That will be worry, jitteryness and despair. That and the sleep deprivation makes that you just cannot trust your thoughts at the moment.
    2. The other crisis your body is experiencing -whatever the cause- gives you high adrenaline and cortisol which presents as feelings of alarm, of wanting to DO something about it, searching around, franticly, feeling trapped, clenching teeth.
    The second is the reaction you must try to stop because it keeps egging itself on. You do this by lying down, slow breathing, having confidence in your body. And by stopping to put your body under duress of any kind. Such as potassium.

    The first reaction you have just to let pass. Wave it along.
    Your body was made to react to events like this. It knows how to survive these things. It's what it was born to. Just let it and stop trying to police it with your brain.

    Your doctor will check you out later today and see whether you are in chronic damage-modus at the moment. If you are (s)he will help you out of it.
    If you are not you'll have to take it easy and ride it out and let your body get back to equilibrium. You can do that. It may take 10 days but you can do that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015

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