1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS and the Magic of the Canine Factor
There's been plenty of research indicating that having pets is good for your health. I never really noticed any particular benefits to having cats, though that may have had more to do with my cats. They've been fairly indifferent to my presence and we've shared a live-and-let-live...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Completely eliminated my severe anxiety symptoms with three supplements!

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Hip, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes:
    2,978
    @Lotus97
    It's hard to say. But if someone with Lyme were to try NAG, it would be prudent to be on the lookout for any worsening of symptoms that might arise, as well as any benefits.
     
    Lotus97 likes this.
  2. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes:
    562
    Seattle
    I agree, definitely hard to say. But it seems like there are often studies where a certain compound or nutrient was found in higher levels with certain conditions, and it's assumed that they're causative, when perhaps they're their in higher concentrations because the body's trying to use what it knows best to fight the infection. ???
     
  3. JES

    JES

    Messages:
    5
    Likes:
    5
    @Hip

    I am still experimenting with various supplements to find the best anti-anxiety approach for me. Recently I started taking an over-the-counter antihistamine for allergy and I noted reduced anxiety right on the first day and the effect is still present a week later. You listed cetirizine in the first post so I'm curious to know if you have any sources for the explanation behind this anti-anxiety mechanism of histamine antagonists.
     
    end likes this.
  4. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,319
    Likes:
    907
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    @JES Histamines absolutely can drive anxiety. I've had great results reducing my histamines w/ several supps. Rutin seems to be the best, works in minutes, amazing. Also mangosteen and royal jelly. I think the royal jelly is responding more to mast cell issues that directly to histamines. Vitamin C and Calcium help mobilize histamines out of the system. Some histamine resources for you:

    http://roosclues.blogspot.com.au/2010/03/overview-of-high-histamine-also-called.html

    The Many Faces of Histamine Intolerance http://healthypixels.com/?p=1044

    http://peelingbacktheonionlayers.com/could-histamine-be-sabotaging-your-digestive-health/

    http://thelowhistaminechef.com/wondering-why-you-react-to-everything-you-eat/

    Histamine food list http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?attachments/allowed-restricted-foods-pdf.6408/

    http://thelowhistaminechef.com/these-probiotic-strains-lower-histamine-rather-than-raising-it/
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  5. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

    Messages:
    3,694
    Likes:
    4,396
    Cornwall, UK
    But the sedating antihistamines, e.g. diphenhydramine, chlorphenamine and promethazine, are not only antihistamines but also have anticholinergic activity, hence they reduce anxiety, nausea and muscle tension, and cause sedation, as well.

    Many drugs - possibly most or even all - have activity other than that for which they are designed/prescribed. Some of this can be harmful, but they can also be beneficial.
     
    Sidereal likes this.
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes:
    2,978
    I am not entirely sure why second generation, non-drowsy antihistamines like cetirizine or loratadine reduced my anxiety, but I might guess that the anti-inflammatory action of these antihistamines may be reducing brain inflammation, which in turn may reduce the anxiety symptoms.
     
    MeSci likes this.
  7. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    216
    Likes:
    147
    Norway
    @Hip Thank you so much for your list! The last, I suppose 5-6 days I've been taking flaxseed oil and turmeric with 95% curcumin (I suppose that's just as good as normal turmeric?) and I've felt A LOT better. My activity level rose quite a bit, and also my mood was considerably elevated- and it was very soon after first dose.

    The turmeric seems to have given me a much better tolerance for fats too. I used to get somewhat nauseous when eating fat, but that's not the case anymore now. I've read that turmeric stimulates gall production, which seems to answer why I benefitted.

    I do get a slight swelling of my lymph nodes in (is it called) the groins area(?). This I have experienced with other oils containing Omega-6, but this time the swelling and slight pain is so small I can live with it, considering the good effects I have gotten.

    Since I could not get hold of NAG here in Norway, I had to order from across the big pond, you know the one between the States and Europe, and it'll be in my hands later today (time now is 2:45 am). If that will bring more goodness to the already great effect, it will be awesome! :)

    Just saying thanks :thumbsup:
     
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes:
    2,978
    @optimist
    Glad you are getting benefits from these supplements. Are you taking them for anxiety symptoms primarily? It sounds like the supplements are producing a mood boosting and energy increasing effect for you too.
     
    optimist likes this.
  9. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    216
    Likes:
    147
    Norway
    Yes, I did take them to calm down anxiety, but it seems they do so more than that. Do you think that having "self imposed" inflammation in the lymph nodes is a bad idea? I mean, could this potentially in the long run bring in new problems? (This is as I said in my previous post most likely because of the Omega-6 in the flaxseed oil.)

    From one of the answers you gave in this thread, you suggest chia seed oil as an alternative to flaxseed oil. Both appear to have an Omega-3/6 ratio of 4:1 - do you know of any other oil with same benefit as flaxseed oil that has no Omega-6?

    Oh, and one more question :) I also saw you told someone that turmeric with 3% curcumin is better than the one with 95% which I am taking. I suppose that taking both would be OK?
     
  10. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

    Messages:
    3,694
    Likes:
    4,396
    Cornwall, UK
    Just want to draw attention to possible reason(s) for turmeric/curcumin helping with anxiety and other ME symptoms - sorry if it's been mentioned already but it's a long thread and a few quick word searches didn't find reference to this.

    It reduces production of prostaglandin E2 (PGE-2), Cyclooxygenase (COX)-2, TNF-alpha-induced activation and nuclear translocation of NF-kB, and iNOS, LOX (directly inhibited), and Phospholipase A2, and more. In short, it reduces inflammation.

    I've blogged on the subject here, albeit without reference to anxiety.
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  11. end

    end Senior Member

    Messages:
    252
    Likes:
    145
    Hi @Hip

    Isn't cetirizine a TH2 to TH1 shifter too? I remember it being on the list you gave me as being an immune modulator. Could that shift also help anxiety states?


    I found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16052848/


    The effect of cetirizine on IFN-gamma and IL-10 production in children with allergic rhinitis.
    Authors
    Uğuz A, et al. Show all
    Journal
    Turk J Pediatr. 2005 Apr-Jun;47(2):111-5.

    Affiliation
    Abstract

    Cetirizine, one of the most commonly used antihistamines for the treatment of allergic diseases, possesses some anti-inflammatory properties. Despite its common use, the effect of cetirizine on the production of cytokines from peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) needs further clarification. The aim of this study was to investigate whether cetirizine changes interleukin (IL)-10, (IF)-gamma and IL-4 production from PBMCs in children with allergic rhinitis. Thirteen children with allergic rhinitis sensitized to house dust mite (HDM) were treated with cetirizine for four weeks. Blood samples were drawn just prior to the treatment, on the last day of the treatment and two weeks following the cessation of treatment The cytokine production from PBMCs was tested in the presence or absence of HDM allergen and measured by ELISA assay. An augmentation in IL-10 production was observed in PBMCs at the 4th week of cetirizine treatment (p<0.05). Furthermore, a significant increase in IFN-gamma production was observed following the therapy. IL-4 release did not change at all time points tested. In addition, IFN-gamma/IL-4 ratio increased following cetirizine treatment. Cetirizine induced a shift in the human Th1/Th2 cytokine balance toward a Th1 type response by increasing IFN-gamma production and augmenting suppressor cytokine release (IL-10). We concluded that apart from its known antihistaminic properties, cetirizine may modulate allergic inflammation while the patients are on regular treatment schedules.

    PMID
    16052848 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
    Free full text: Aves Yayincilik
    Related Citations
    Show all

    I have found this to be the only effective antihistamine for my allergies. The rest I have tried do very little...
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
    MeSci likes this.
  12. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

    Messages:
    3,694
    Likes:
    4,396
    Cornwall, UK
    Interesting. I recently bought some cetirizine for my intermittent hay-fever-like symptoms. Haven't tried it yet. I previously took loratidine.

    Just to confuse things further, interferon-gamma was mentioned in this thread in relation to ME/CFS.
     
  13. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes:
    2,978
    @optimist,
    To answer you above three questions:
    (1) I don't know.
    (2) I don't know of any other oils; but I found omega 6 in the form of evening primrose oil to also have anti-anxiety effects.
    (3) 95% curcumin is almost pure curcumin, so this is not really turmeric. I found turmeric (which normally contains 3% curcumin) and pure curcumin both to have anti-anxiety effects, but I found turmeric to be better than curcumin. No harm in taking both though.

    @MeSci
    Thanks for that link to your blog entry. I think curcumin's anti-anxiety benefits may stem from its COX-2 and NF-κB inhibition, as I found other COX-2 inhibitors (like propolis) and other NF-κB inhibitors (like grape seed extract) also had noticeable anti-anxiety effects.

    @end
    I have tried dozens of Th2 to Th1 shifters. Many increased my levels of depression, but did not increase or decrease my anxiety levels.
     
    MeSci, end, Leopardtail and 1 other person like this.
  14. BramV

    BramV

    Messages:
    2
    Likes:
    0
    Hi there, a few questions:

    I now have a powder called curcuma longa-powder. How do I know how much I have to take from that? I don't have a scale that can weigh miligrams... It sais on the bottle that the dosages is one teaspoon daily.
    Also, as I understand, turmeric is better than curcumin only, can you give a link where one would buy good turmeric?

    And Hip, are you still on the same regime as in your first post? With the three supplements?
    Do you take any others now?

    Thank you very much!
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  15. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes:
    2,978
    Curcuma longa is the botanical name for the turmeric, so you are fine there. On a miligram scale, I find that a level teaspoon of turmeric powder weights around 1.5 grams, so to get a an approximate 1 gram dose you want a little bit less than a level teaspoon.

    If you have any Asian shops near you, they often sell a large bag of turmeric powder for cooking quite cheaply. If not, look online.

    Yes, I am still on the same regimen, and it still works well. I also take vitamin A 25,000 IU daily, and vinpocetine 10 mg daily which also reduce inflammation and anxiety.

    If I have a bad day were I feel the anxiety is creeping back, I will add to the regimen arginine pyroglutamate powder 1 heaped teaspoon (5 grams) on that day.
     
  16. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

    Messages:
    140
    Likes:
    18
    Is curcumin high in sulfur or ammonia?
     
  17. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,440
    Likes:
    2,968
    Couchland, USA
    Curcumin is extracted from turmeric with a solvent. Also, there are many other beneficial components in turmeric that probably work synergistically. I also have heard that commercially prepared turmeric spice is processed in some potentially harmful way? I dunno.

    I prefer to buy fresh turmeric root when in season and dry/prepare it myself for later use.
     
  18. BramV

    BramV

    Messages:
    2
    Likes:
    0
    Is N-acetyl-D-glucosamine the same as N-acetyl-Glucosamine? Im having problems finding it in the netherlands :s

    Ok i did find one source. Its kind of weird on the front it sais: n-acetyl glucosamine 1500 mg, and in the text on the back it sais:contains per tablet: 750 mg N-Acetyl Glucosamine, of which 610 mg elementary glucosamine. What do they mean by this, is this ok?
    (translated from dutch)
    Do they mean there is onky 750-610=140 mg n-acetyl glucosamine, and the rest is 'elementary' glucosamine (what is that?)... But what about the 1500 mg statement on the front then?

    And when I weigh them: little more that over a gram (1030 mg per tablet) :s
    Am I misunderstanding something here, or did they really screw up with what they put on the bottle?

    And yet another question:

    Where did you find arginine pyroglutamate powder, and why/how does it help?
    I can't seem to find it, only arginine (freeform). Does it have other names as well?

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
  19. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

    Messages:
    309
    Likes:
    156
    @MeSci, I was interested to read your post about turmeric/curcumin reducing inflammation, and thus helping with anxiety.

    I recently started taking the Longvida form of curcumin, at my nutritionist's suggestion. I've taken other types of curcumin and turmeric such as Meriva, but not this form, which is pretty new. These other forms have helped me with joint pain, but nothing else noticeable. Longvida is supposed to cross the BBB.

    The first time I took Longvida, I started yawning like crazy and could barely function the rest of the day because of the sedation. I switched to evening doses for that reason.

    There are 6 or 7 different brands of Longvida. I'm taking Cogcumin SLCP. I'm hoping long-term use will have a neuro protective effect.

    http://www.protocolforlife.com/Prod...00-mg-50-Veg-Capsules.htm?cat=Cognitive Brain
     
  20. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

    Messages:
    3,694
    Likes:
    4,396
    Cornwall, UK
    Hope it helps. I've stopped taking curcumin/turmeric as it didn't seem to have any (lasting) effects. But I'd already dramatically reduced anxiety through a leaky-gut diet and other supplements. I don't get any significant joint pain, or any other significant pain, I'm glad to say.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page