Severe ME Day of Understanding and Remembrance: Aug. 8, 2017
Determined to paper the Internet with articles about ME, Jody Smith brings some additional focus to Severe Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Day of Understanding and Remembrance on Aug. 8, 2017 ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Cannot Get Rid Of Methylation Side Effects, Brain Fog, Fatigue, etc.

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Tigger, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. Tigger

    Tigger

    Messages:
    63
    Likes:
    4
    Hi everyone,

    A thread with the answers I'm looking for may be out there but I haven't had any luck. I've had on and off success with supporting methylation and related processes via sublingual methylcobalamin and methylfolate and the necessary cofactors but I continue to struggle. About 1/4 of the time I seem to get really lucky and have phenomenal days with the regimen but then fall back to extreme fatigue, brain fog, high heat panic in stressful situations (i.e., very flustered very easily), sore/weak muscles, anti-social, flat, etc. Here are the steps I've taken to combat these issues over the past year:

    -High-dose folate with potassium support per Freddd's instructions
    -General potassium support (mild but only interment success)
    -Trying un-methylated versions of b12 and folate in the forms of hydroxocobalamin and folinic acid
    -Controlling inflammation with Turmeric
    -Addressing related mutations first (CBS, etc.)
    -Very low and slow regimens
    -Clean diet, positive outlook, etc. (all the general well-being advice)

    It seems, of course, that the biggest contributors to these issues are methylb12 and folate. I'm currently starting an R-ALA protocol with low dose methylation support per Cutler's guidelines. I've had quite a strong reaction to the R-ALA while dosing every 3-4 hours so heavy metal toxicity may be the root cause. I'm excited if this is the case in that I'll finally have an answer to my never-ending problems! Thanks in advance. Also, @caledonia, you have been incredibly helpful and any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. wondrous

    wondrous

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    20
    Hey @Tigger, how much methyl-folate are you taking?
     
  3. Tigger

    Tigger

    Messages:
    63
    Likes:
    4
    Hi. I've taken wide ranges from less than 50 mcg every couple of days to up to 35 mg per day all with the same side effects. I give each range at least a week before stopping and trying a new approach.
     
  4. wondrous

    wondrous

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    20
    Do you notice if these side effects occur more commonly around a specific dosage of methyl-folate? Are you homozygous or heterozygous for the MTHFR gene?

    The reason I ask is because depending on which mutation you have, you may need more or less of methyl-folate. Based on your side effects, it sounds like you're taking too much methyl-folate.

    I'm heterozygous and have taken up to 1200mcg (1.2mg) of methyl-folate in the past, and it's helped tremendously. However, now I can't even taken just 400mcg of methyl-folate without feeling anxious, extremely irritable, and anti-social.
     
  5. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

    Messages:
    238
    Likes:
    185
    That seems a reasonable guess.

    There have been quite a few discussions with regards to methylation and heavy metal toxicity. One such thread involving Freddd and mercury is here.
     
  6. Tigger

    Tigger

    Messages:
    63
    Likes:
    4
    @wondrous The side effects seem to occur at just about all dosages. Initially I did well on 200-400 mcg split throughout the day but that didn't last for too long. I then spent the next 10 months trying all sorts of dosages and approaches outlined above with not much success. What dosage/regimen are you on now? I wonder if it's possible if we just needed that initial push and now need very little to be well. I don't feel like I'm thriving though with very small dosages like I did initially. When I tried folate for the first time, it blew my socks off in a very positive way similar to what @Freddd has described.

    I'm heterozygous for MTHFR C677T and have a number of mb12 related mutations including MTR A2756G +/-, MTRR A66G +/+ and MTRR A664A +/+. Other important mutations include COMT V158M +/-, COMT H62H +/-, MAO-A R297R +/+, BHMT-08 +/- and CBS A360A +/+.

    @Eastman Thank you for that. I've read Cutler's book and related sources and am very hopeful for my current plan of attack. Have you gone through any heavy metal/mercury-based chelation protocols?
     
  7. wondrous

    wondrous

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    20
    The same experience has happened to me and I wonder just the same.

    Dr. Ben Lynch says that those who are heterozygous for MTHFR C677T won't need much more methyl-folate than what is found in the supplement Optimal Multivitamin, which, if I'm correct, is just 400mcg.

    He even mentions that he doesn't take methyl-folate consistently -- as he himself is heterozygous for MTHFR, if I remember correctly -- but instead takes it on an as-needed basis.

    At the moment, I'm not taking any methyl-folate because of the above symptoms I mentioned. I'm also dealing with a heterozygous CBS mutation and am trying to discern if that is causing a road block.
     
  8. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes:
    3,211
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    It could either be you're missing some co-factor (like magnesium?) or it sounds like you have metals - mercury and lead inhibit methylation at methionine synthase (MTR). So your body is sort of having a fight between getting methyl inputs and inhibiting them.

    R-ALA is a bad form of ALA to take for the Cutler protocol. Just take regular ALA. I'm not sure of the reason, I just know R-ALA is not good.

    I'm on round #11 of Cutler chelation with ALA.

    It might be good to get a hair test anyway. There are nuances the Cutler Frequent Dose Chelation Yahoo Group can derive from the test. For example, it turns out I'm a fast metabolizer. That was helpful figuring out my dosing schedule which is every 2 hours instead of the normal 3-4 hours. Also I have lead and arsenic on top of mercury, so I know I'll need to add DMSA at some point.

    I encourage you to check in with that group or the Andy Cutler Chelation Think Tank on Facebook to make sure you're doing everything right. For example, have you gotten all amalgams out, are you doing the Core Four supplements, etc.

    For debugging methylation, I have a document called Roadblocks to Successful Methylation Treatment in my signature link, and also links to Cutler stuff which will lead to links to the Cutler groups.
     
  9. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

    Messages:
    238
    Likes:
    185
    I suspect I have mercury toxicity but I am doing the gentler approach to detox with methylation, garlic and selenium.
     
  10. Valentijn

    Valentijn The Diabolic Logic

    Messages:
    14,042
    Likes:
    43,564
    No, the CBS SNPs listed by Yasko/Genetic Genie/etc are not capable of causing any problems. Any source which says otherwise is not to be trusted.
     
  11. Tigger

    Tigger

    Messages:
    63
    Likes:
    4
    @caledonia Thanks for the response as always. Magnesium has actually been one of my core supports since the beginning.

    I actually completed a hair test and posted it to Yahoo's group per your advice with some good input from members. My results strongly suggested performing Cutler's protocol. Fortunately, I've never had amalgams but there are certainly more than ample sources of Mercury and other heavy metals in our world today so I figured it would be a solid place to start given that I can't seem to get methylation working properly and consistently otherwise (even following Roadblocks to Successful Methylation thoroughly).

    Do you recall where you heard that regular ALA is preferred over R-ALA? This would be good news given the price difference.

    What specifics did they give you in regards to you being a fast metabolizer? This would be nice to know.

    Finally, where did you find DMSA? I can't seem to find a reputable source. I also have high levels of lead and arsenic and would like to take care of those simultaneously.

    @Eastman That sounds like a good plan. However, I've been told that methylation on its own will take a very long time to actually mobilize and excrete heavy metals.

    @Valentijn and @wondrous I've actually heard what Valentijn has said in quite a few places which is actually relieving. I was not able to find any evidence to back up Yasko's claim that CBS is an issue or, at the very least, should be dealt with before pushing other parts of the cycle. I myself chased after my own tail for a solid 6 months trying to stabilize my CBS gene with little to no noticeable difference.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page