Bone density in bedridden patient

[anniekim]

Thanks very much @Alvin2, pain getting bad from typing so will reply properly tmrw

 

[Mary]

There's a good K2 thread on here at http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/has-vitamin-k-2-mk-4-or-mk7-helped-you.15605/
I've just ordered a different K2 on the strength of that thread. (We were on Mk-7, but the new one is Mk-4)

Thanks for the link, very good information. Interestingly it talks about one's teeth feeling cleaner - less plaque - with K2 supplementation. I've noticed very recently (the last couple of weeks) that my teeth feel cleaner, especially in the morning. A couple of times I've actually forgotten to brush my teeth because they just felt clean already. I had no idea why. But after looking at the above thread, it makes sense. I've been taking Now Foods MK-7, 100 mcg. (1 a day) for about 2 or 4 months, can't remember exactly, but it's not a great length of time.

Next time I order I'll get some MK-4 instead and see if my clean teeth feeling keeps up. So perhaps we don't need as large a dose some say we do.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Jonathan Edwards So would a DEXA scan be a lot less radiation than a high resolution cat scan? Am just curious and do not know the answer myself as there seem to be so many different types of cat scan machines.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

@Jonathan Edwards So would a DEXA scan be a lot less radiation than a high resolution cat scan? Am just curious and do not know the answer myself as there seem to be so many different types of cat scan machines.

What I see on the net fits with what I suspected. I standard high resolution CT scan is about 10,000 times as much radiation as a DEXA. A DEXA is about one thousandth of of standard X-ray of the spine. So the radiation dose for DEXA really is tiny.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Thank you. My adult daughter had this Dexa scan And mild osteoporosis was found. The GP wrote a referral for an endocrinologist indicating the latter would presumably inject a medication for bone loss. But here in the true north strong and free that's a wait of a year. Do you think Dr Edwards this injection is safe and recommended.
And what supplements would you recommend in the meantime? Preferably drops,as pills are hard on her gut. Thank you.

A wait of a year has is completely inappropriate but the NHS is falling apart as we all know. I cannot recommend any treatment as you know. However, I do not think supplements are of any use, except perhaps calcium for appropriate cases.

 

[Gingergrrl]

What I see on the net fits with what I suspected. I standard high resolution CT scan is about 10,000 times as much radiation as a DEXA. A DEXA is about one thousandth of of standard X-ray of the spine. So the radiation dose for DEXA really is tiny.

Thank you and I did not realize that. I will have to get a high res Lung CT scan but hoping this is last one. I decline everything not crucial, like the DEXA scan, since the radiation is all cumulative IMO although probably already too late for me!

 

[Wolfiness]

However, I do not think supplements are of any use, except perhaps calcium for appropriate cases.

It sounds like there's very little I can do about it then other than try not to fall out of bed?

 

[Sushi]

It sounds like there's very little I can do about it then other than try not to fall out of bed?

There is pretty good evidence that certain nutrients do make a difference in bone strength. I think most of them have been mentioned in this thread.

 

[Alvin2]

There is pretty good evidence that certain nutrients do make a difference in bone strength. I think most of them have been mentioned in this thread.

Indeed, I posted evidence that Vitamin K2 works in patients who lose bone mass from disuse, sounds like something viable.

 

[anniekim]

@Jonathan Edwards I appreciate you cannot offer treatment advice but I take it when you don't think supplements help that includes the K2?

I went through my bookmarks and found this
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9737352

which suggests it will help maintain bone mass in bedridden patients

Thank you @Alvin2 I note this paper was using 45mg. I am going to try 2mg mk4 daily and not take the high dose.

 

[Alvin2]

@Jonathan Edwards I appreciate you cannot offer treatment advice but I take it when you don't think supplements help that includes the K2?


Thank you @Alvin2 I note this paper was using 45mg. I am going to try 2mg mk4 daily and not take the high dose.

Your welcome, newer research suggests you don't need that much, 360mcg of MK7 or 1mg of MK4 will maximize osteocalcin, though for the additional beneficial effects the 2mg of MK4 is probably good.
Where are you getting your MK4 from?

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

@Jonathan Edwards I appreciate you cannot offer treatment advice but I take it when you don't think supplements help that includes the K2?

Sorry, I was not specifically referring to K2. Both vitamin D and K2 seem to be useful in osteopenia. For vitamin D this is probably an issue of supplementation for those who are deficient, although it is complicated. Vitamin K2 may have an effect over and above deficiency and so is not strictly speaking being used as a supplement. Either way, I would not recommend using any of these things without proper medical advice. If a substance can help it can almost certainly also cause harm under the wrong conditions. Calcium supplementation in the osteopenia of myeloma is a good way to cause renal failure for instance. So medical advice is needed.

 

[Apple]

Hi @Cheesus I don't have any advice for you, but I do recall reading about jessica (fb: worldofoneroom) having severe osteoporosis, and in a semi recent video she mentioned that her bone density had improved considerably. I don't know what she did, I don't remember which video it was but I definitely remember her mentioning it.

Might be worth contacting her, i'm sure she wouldn't mind giving you some info.

 

[Cheesus]

Thanks @Apple. I will look her up.

 

[anniekim]

@Alvin2 i have ordered Thornes MK4

 

[Alvin2]

@Alvin2 i have ordered Thornes MK4

Thats a good one, i'm assuming the 1mg/drop version

 

[anniekim]

@Alvin2, yes. Ordered due to you mentioning them above

 

[Alvin2]

@Alvin2, yes. Ordered due to you mentioning them above

cool, where from?
We seem to have problems getting it in Canada

 

[anniekim]

Iherb. US site, ship to U.K, but can get hefty custom charges