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Balancing neurotransmitters?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by renski, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    Just wondering what people do to alter neurotransmitter levels? Supplements or prescription medications?

    I have high cortisol, high quinnolic acid, possibly low serotonin and dopamine, and I think elevated norepinephrine.

    I'm considering Namenda for blocking NMDA receptors, but not sure what to do with everything else. I haven't had good experiences with 5-htp or tyrosine, anything that increases cortisol makes me more hyper/wired.
     
  2. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    I'd stay away from Namenda. There are natural safe ways to block glutamate activity levels. One surprising one is vitamin C: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25701025
    I can vouch for this because I had been taking vitamin C regularly and then stopped for several weeks. My sleep worsened, and I fortuitously made the connection when checking out something else. I restarted the C and sleep improved.

    Check out glycine - it's very calming, helps with sleep and helps lower cortisol. It also is important for detoxification. When I first took it, it helped me sleep almost immediately but I also had a very strong detox reaction which I was not expecting. After doing some research, I found out about its role in phase II liver detoxification - I went to a smaller dose and gradually titrated up and now tolerate it just fine.

    It sounds like you may want to increase GABA. I've got a cocktail of supplements I take at night for sleep, most of which increase GABA - here's one post I did with info on these supplements: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ameliorates-excitotoxicity.48768/#post-803439
    If you scroll down to mid-page on the post, I list all the supplements and what they do, including a couple that help reduce cortisol (Relora and Seriphos)

    I think you have lots of non-drug options - good luck!
     
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  3. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    Hi @Mary

    Thanks.. I'll try Vitamin C. Glycine makes me more anxious/hyped up, my body seems to lean towards glutamate :(

    I already take a sleeping tablet which increases GABA but that doesn't do much for my anxiety.

    Correction on first post, I think I have high dopamine (HVA is high on OAT), VMA is also a little elevated, high glutamate and low serotonin and GABA.. or something close to that.
     
  4. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    You might check out niacin or niacinamide as well - both are supposed to stimulate or sensitize GABA receptors. When I started taking niacin, it helped with sleep immediately. I can't take niacin during the day because it makes me tired - it can slow down methylation, but it's great at night for me for sleep.
     
  5. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    Niacinamide calms me for a few hours, then I feel very hyper/wired/anxious and aggressive after 4+ hours

    curcumin calms me down but makes my depression worse

    p5p initially calms me down but makes me very hyper/wired/anxious
     
  6. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    Seriphos causes worsening of depression :(
     
  7. caledonia

    caledonia

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    You may need to dose things 3-4 times a day as they sounds like they're wearing out of your system within a few hours. This is typical of supplements anyway.

    You can try Relora instead of Seriphos. Holy Basil is another option for lowering cortisol.

    If something causes depression, maybe the amount in one pill is too much. You can get empty gel caps and split capsules into smaller doses. I do this all the time. For some of my supplements I only need tiny amounts, for others I need mega doses.

    For high glutamate - try avoiding all processed foods (50% of them have MSG added, and it's a minefield trying to figure out which ones have it from the ingredients list). Then also foods with natural glutamates - tomatoes, mushrooms, Parmesan cheese (there's one more I can never remember).

    Then try PharmaGABA to increase GABA. PharmaGABA is supposed to cross the blood brain barrier better.
     
    Mary likes this.
  8. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @renski - one question about glycine: you say it makes you more anxious - I'm wondering if you're confusing it with glutamine. I've been reading rather conflicting things about glycine - according to this article (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11396606), glycine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter and states in part:

    However, elsewhere it is indicated that it may be excitatory. Anyways, I just wanted to make sure you weren't confusing glycine and glutamine. I can tolerate glutamine to a certain but then it becomes excitatory for me, whereas glycine is always calming for me.

    Also, don't forget about l-theanine - unlike plain GABA, l-theanine does cross the blood-brain barrier to help the brain produce GABA.

    And @caledonia makes some very good points about dosing supplements several times during the day as well as avoiding MSG in all its forms - you very likely know this but MSG is called all sorts of different things on labels - e.g., "natural flavoring" for one - it's insane that they are allowed to do that. You can look up all the meaningless names MSG goes by.
     
  9. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I am homozygous for 2 GAD enzymes in GAD1 which converts glutamic acid into GABA and have been suffering for years with ever increasing number of very nasty migraines which I was certain was linked to excess glutamate (every time I took a supplement with any natural floats in it I would have severe migraine but now I have been able to restart my Thorne multivitamin which has this in without problems).

    To my amazement just 25 mg Lyrica has got them completely under control and I only take it first thing in the morning. I have just had a couple of times in a month when I have needed to take it twice a day and/or needed a dose of Sumatriptan, something I can hardly believe.

    Lyrics blocks glutamate I believe hence it helping me, no amount of diet changes worked for me and now it feels fantastic that I can eat without worrying but I still eat a healthy diet but now don't worry about how many nuts or peanuts I eat!

    Pam
     
  10. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    @Mary, Nah I meant glycine, doesn't agree with me at all. L-theanine makes sleep worse

    Apparently P5P and Niacinamide reduce glutamate, I guess that explains the calming feeling but then both are giving me delayed negative reactions.

    @caledonia, I guess that's possible that the dosage is wearing off, I think more likely though there is some other pathway being stimulated or something else is not right to get this kind of reaction. I'm completely over everything, I have 100's of supplements and just about every one of them makes me worse in some way.

    I took some CBS RNA this morning, one drop.. more depression. Hydroxy B12, causes more depression. Folinic acid feel a little better but more hyped up. I guess this could be because of higher glutamate in my brain.

    I am working with a doctor but don't know if they will be able to explain whats going on either.
     
  11. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @renski - I'm stumped - I hope you're able to get some help from your doctor!
     
  12. Valentijn

    Valentijn WE ARE KINA

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    Why?
     
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  13. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Have you tried SAMe, and if so, what happens?

    According to William Walsh, in some people, folate may decrease serotonin instead of increasing it. SAMe is the workaround.

    What happens with minerals like magnesium and zinc?

    Can you tolerate antioxidants like vitamin C and E?

    Also what are your symptoms - mainly anxiety and depression? Or if you have an introduction thread somewhere describing your symptoms can you link to that?
     
  14. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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  15. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    @caledonia
    SAMe I feel less depressed but more hyped up/wired/anxious.

    Vitamin C feel better but more energy, I think this maybe causing my adrenals to drive harder

    Vitamin E - haven't tried this on its own

    Zinc, don't feel great, depends on the form but I can tolerate it.

    Magnesium, don't feel good on it, depends on the form I use but glycinate can make me more anxious. Maybe I need to try a smaller dose..

    My symptoms are chronic fatigue, insomnia, anxiety, depression and a lot of other issues like feeling hyped/anxious.

    I think maybe the reaction to CBS RNA/phosphatidylserine/hydroxy B12 is an increase in methylation, and I'm experiencing some sort of detox? Or is the methylation just using up what neurotransmitters I have left. The doctor I'm seeing (Nancy M) has said I have this CBS upregulation but she hasn't really addressed it with anything other then the CBS RNA. I'm going to try the All-in-One multivitamin soon and a lower dose of phosphatidylserine to see if that helps. I have the B12 and folate deficiency on the OAT's test, I have pyroluria, etc.

    Attached my genetic gene, it's missing some genes (23andme don't seem to do all of the genes, I don't know why though).

    I have a lot of gut issues going on, clostridia/strep/candida and I tried treating it but things got worse and now I can't tolerate any probiotics/prebiotics. Anti-microbials help but only temporarily, so I'm trying the methylation approach now to see if that will help.

    Thanks
     

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  16. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Moderated, no explanation given

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    I have been using a modified Fredd protocol since April last year. I noticed you are talking about a bad reaction to SAMe. I've never progressed to take this since I was taking creatine way before I started the protocol. I mainly took this as a PEM limiting thing, but have subsequently found out that taking creatine also takes the burden off methylation generally. it's also a lot cheaper than SAMe. just thought I would mention it in case you haven't considered this.
     
  17. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    @arewenearlythereyet
    thanks.. creatine, feel a little better but very wired/hyper on it.


    I'm ready to give up on all of this, life and everything.. I no longer have the will to do anything, I'm tired of doctors not helping me, I can't figure out what is wrong with me and all the research I do makes me more stressed.
     
  18. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Moderated, no explanation given

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    I know it all seems a bit chaotic. You almost have to be a genius to try and filter out all the pet theories and pseudoscience. There is a lot here because people will hang their hat on stuff they wouldn't normally because they are desperate for some treatment. The plain fact is that we don't have a cure and it certainly isn't buried within PR threads otherwise we would know about it by now. Try not to waste too much energy endlessly searching. There is good research going on now by scientists who seem to know what they are doing so there is always hope. When there is a breakthrough it will be posted on the new threads and have at least 30 pages if it's worth reading. Perhaps filter out that way? Some of the supplements etc can help tone down symptoms but this seems to be very variable across people. I'm sorry the creatine didn't work out for you. Keep hopeful we could have a breakthrough this year?
     
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  19. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    I just don't understand anything.. all of my symptoms seem to be the opposite of most people on here.. the high cortisol/depression/anxiety dominate .. everyone is taking B vitamins and all sorts of supplements and I can barely tolerate a drop of anything.. and I don't even know if what I'm taking has me on the right path.

    I know my gut problems are causing the high cortisol, and many supplements can increase the adrenal function (which I guess causes more issues), but I wonder about other things like high copper, sulfites, sulfate.. etc .. none of which I can understand. I have the CBS upregulation, but I also have pyrrole disorder and other issues like B12/folate deficiencies.
     
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  20. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

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    That is an informative thread, good to check out.

    Yes, your gut could be the root of your problem.

    Prebiotic intake reduces the waking cortisol response and alters emotional bias in healthy volunteers.
     
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