Zinc in the Nervous System

percyval577

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Thalamic distribution of zinc-rich terminal fields and neurons of origin in the rat
Mengual 2001


Abstract
Several cortico-cortical and limbic-related circuits are enriched in zinc, which is considered as an important modulator of glutamatergic transmission. While heavy metals have been detected in the thalamus, the specific presence of zinc has not been examined in this region. We have used two highly sensitive variations of the Timm method to study the zinc-rich innervation in the rat thalamus, which was compared to the distribution of acetylcholinesterase activity. The origin of some of these zinc-rich projections was also investigated by means of retrograde transport after intracerebral infusions of sodium selenium (Na2SeO3).

The overall zinc staining in the thalamus was much lower than in the neocortex, striatum or basal forebrain; however, densely stained terminal fields were observed in the dorsal tip of the reticular thalamic nucleus, the anterodorsal and lateral dorsal thalamic nuclei and the zona incerta. In addition, moderately stained zinc-rich terminal fields were found in the rostral intralaminar nuclei, nucleus reuniens and lateral habenula. Intracerebral infusions of Na2SeO3 in the lateral dorsal nucleus resulted in retrogradely labeled neurons that were located in the postsubiculum, and also in the pre- and parasubiculum.

These results are the first to establish the existence of a zinc-rich subicular-thalamic projection. Similar infusions in either the intralaminar nuclei or the zona incerta resulted in labeling of neurons in several brainstem structures related to the reticular formation. Our results provide morphological evidence for zinc modulation of glutamatergic inputs to highly selective thalamic nuclei, arising differentially from either cortical limbic areas or from brainstem ascending activation systems.
paywalled
Neuroscience. 2001;102(4):863-84. DOI:
10.1016/s0306-4522(00)00472-3
 

percyval577

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I have come to the conclusion that some metals (and their induced actions) are key to ME/CFS, at least in my case. Furthermore I think that the main side of impact has been in the basal ganglia and the thalamus, which may be a common to other brain diseases. In accordance, it would be no suprice if certain metals are involved here. For instance:
______​

Zinc and copper concentrations do not differentiate bipolar disorder from major depressive disorder
Styczeń et al 2017


Summary
Aim. The aim of this study was to compare the zinc and copper concentration in the group with bipolar disorder (BD) and major depressive disorder (MDD).

Method. 110 patients with the diagnosis of BD and 114 with MDD were qualified to the study. To assess the levels of microelements, the flame atomic absorption spectrometry (FAAS) was used in the case of zinc and the electrothermal atomic absorption spectrometry (ET AAS) was used in the case of copper.

Results. There were no differences between concentration of zinc and copper in remission and depressive phase between patients with BD and MDD. Additionally, there were also no statistically significant differences in comparisons including type I and II, early or late phase of BD and MDD.

Conclusions. The lack of differences in zinc and copper concentrations between patients with bipolar disorder and major depressive disorder might indicate that those disorders have similar etiology.
open access
Psychiatr. Pol. ONLINE FIRST Nr 85: 1–9
 
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Wishful

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I expect it's one of those personal situation things. You're sensitive to several metals; I've noticed no effects from them (taken as supplements or breathing in zinc fumes). I think it's unlikely to be a major component of ME for most PWME.
 

percyval577

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I expect it's one of those personal situation things. You're sensitive to several metals; I've noticed no effects from them (taken as supplements or breathing in zinc fumes). I think it's unlikely to be a major component of ME for most PWME.
May be so easily enough.

I tried zinc maybe two years ago without any effect. Now I take it together with GABA/Taurin and Tyrosin, as well as supplementing B7, 2, and 1. Another major player seems to be w3-fatty acids. Finally VitC and then Citrate, and often then Acetate (in a sipping manner, after meal or maybe exertion, small amounts but recurring, a discription here).



I like to think that geometrical actions of synaptical energy flow have been disturbed by ther trigger, and now carry on like if it was normal. This implicates that the metals codiefy geometrical directions (I know, it may sound strange - but the basal ganglia are geometrical shaped par excellence, as well as the thalamus can be seen to be).

The main clue seems to be to strengthen one metal action at one time - and not all together at the same time. I even had this effect with the B´s in the first half of this year, and still wait a minute until I take a next B.

Theoretically, already different impacts on (unspecific) areas in these brain regions could account for differences in PwME (core differences, non-downstream ones) - an optimistic view of course.



Then I think these special metals - zinc, chromium and nickel - may be a personal thing, b/c my two infection would have brought about an exaggeration of Manganese actions, and the other three now ever have been to weak.

Then other ill ppl might have success with other metals (metals are not always without danger). A bit uncomfortable is that the method implies a build up or a put up, like to put up a tent, or to build up a roof, so it makes no sense simply to supply the body with the stuff, it would remain in the muddle.

But maybe even this flexible view is not true, though it could explain, as far as I can see, the whole bunch of personal experiences of PwME.
 

percyval577

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I tried zinc maybe two years ago without any effect.
Actually it was a combo containing histidine, so the judgement I did here is flawed.

Later I got good as well as bad effects from this combo.

Last autumn I tested metals from pieces of metals found in my flat (putting into hot in water for seconds, it might be not safe), and found that zinc in this manner was more effective. But altogether it didn´t lead to any progredient improvement (which I was searching for), so I stopped it. Only this year I discovered the above mentioned method, and only nickel I use in a "homeopathic" dose.


Ever I forget magnesium to take and to mention. (I better stick to the so far whole protocol.)


Only these days I started with B3, and it seems that I am deficient. This may go for the other ones as well, albeit I didn´t thought so in the past. I also take small amounts of B5, but no B9 and B6. The deficencies manifest after a while I have started to improve, and by some bleeding in the nose and elsewhere, splitting skin at the fingertoops, and very surprisingly in an altered form of the upper jaw noticed by the fact that the lower incisors hit the upper ones, reversed by B3 (for now at least).


The directions which take place after my impression (it might be wrong, or might appear like so only under currentent circumstances) are:
back-foreward direction: Zinc
foreward-round movement: Chromium
turning around a vertical axis: Nickel
short distinces (or sidewards direction?): Manganese


Apparently probabaly nobody will believe this -
 
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Pearshaped

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Whatever works for you must be right.We should trust our gut feelings,our body is not stupid.
isn't there a german Doc who sais PwME are often deficient in trace minerals?

interestingely enough,there's a well known other german doc(Kuklinski)who sais many PwME react badly to zinc,which,appararently, doesn't necessarily mean they are not deficient.Complex isn't it? I react indeed badly to zinc whereas I react good to magnesium.
 

percyval577

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interestingely enough,there's a well known other german doc(Kuklinski)who sais many PwME react badly to zinc,which,appararently, doesn't necessarily mean they are not deficient.Complex isn't it?
Yes, complex, and still difficult to investigate. Kulinski has his radar switched on.

Another member said to have bad effects from B2, I have good ones.


My idea is now, that it might depend on whats going on the basal ganglia, when the architecture of metal dependent actions would have been disturbed, say, by any metal exflux from pathogens or by any effect on metal transporter.

The whole machinery would act as everything were normal, only it had changed shape (with different effects downstream now).

There might never be a same cure then, and the influence would depend on developing an instinct. But the idea would be the same, it would be like building up a house of carts.


I have just returned to the ultratrace-element nickel with promising effects, but then made a mistake in dose (probably not good).