'yoga created by men for male bodies'

[golden]

https://wholewoman.com/newpages/uterine.html

I dont know how much of this website is accurate (and it is selling a product).

But my own intuition told me there is a lot wrong with these techniques for the female form.

I am adjusting my posture slightly as pelvic area not quite right (no prolapse) - but now O am not sure about yoga, pilates etc.

 

[WillowJ]

very interesting, thanks.

 

[metalnun]

I would like to address this concern, as a yoga teacher since the early 1980s and practitioner since 1976, also certified in Pilates and Holistic Wellness and recently retired from 22 years working in mainstream medicine.

While it is true that traditional yoga schools catered to men, and women were not even allowed in the classes in India until Krishnamacharya began teaching women in approximately 1940 (Indra Devi being one of his most famous students), today women far outnumber men in the yoga world.

We have completely taken over the discipline, especially here in the West, and most women gain great benefit from the practice.

Despite some fear-mongering by a few authors, statistically yoga is a very safe activity. Having said that, certain postures may aggravate an existing prolapse (which was originally caused by childbirth, surgery or trauma - not by yoga per se).

While the author linked above makes some good points, I disagree with her about a "relaxed belly" being beneficial to the internal organs, and the posture she recommends is also not good for the lower back, which is supported by strong abdominal (core) muscles.

The "neutral" posture in Pilates - neither "tucked" nor tilted forward - is a healthier alignment. Many women come to me to learn yoga and Pilates in order to remedy lower back pain caused by bad (tilted) posture and weak abdominal muscles, and they benefit from the standard exercises.

However, yoga (as taught by Krishnamacharya) should be adapted to the needs of the individual.

If you have a preexisting anatomical/surgical injury, some postures are better than others. But if the prolapse is bad enough to be aggravated in the manner described in the above link, then yoga is the least of your concerns, as any number of other activities will likewise be problematic.

This article may be helpful: http://yogaforhealthyaging.blogspot.com/2014/04/organ-prolapse-and-yoga.html

(edited by moderator to break up text for easier reading)

 

[golden]

'We get many calls from Yoga practitioners and teachers who are shocked to find they have prolapse. “How could this be? I’ve been practicing Yoga for thirty years.” is a common comment'. (Christine Kent).


Thanks metalnun. Do you have the names of these 'fear mongering authors' - as i would like to read more.

I havent tried these new techniques, but I am going to pursue this since I already had this intuition anyway.
Maybe difficult to rid the conditioning.



Golden

 

[manna]

I've toyed with hatha yoga, polarity yoga and chi kung and now pick a few postures out of each that i can do and leave the ones I can't. If a posture isn't easy then come back to it at a later date and try again. There should be no undue strain.

 

[golden]

I've toyed with hatha yoga, polarity yoga and chi kung and now pick a few postures out of each that i can do and leave the ones I can't. If a posture isn't easy then come back to it at a later date and try again. There should be no undue strain.

I think you might have misunderstood the point of the thread @manna.

It discusses the possibility that the male lineage is fundamentally flawed for women.

I think the basic posture is limiting women and misaligning their energy.

I have oft questioned the meditations too which i think have been created more for mens needs.

 

[Valentijn]

Why's it even relevant? Western Yoga has almost nothing in common with real Yoga anyhow.

 

[JAM]

Oh boy. I'm a personal trainer, meditation, Pilates and Tai Chi instructor, and Yoga practitioner, and I agree with @metalnun. Every body is different. There are some poses that are not good for some people, Yoga and Pilates are not one size fits all, we get all that training so we can determine what will work for each individual. A pronounced lumbar curve is not healthy and causes many structural problems. Sorry, I can't get over how silly that article is. Deep breath. Prolapse is a very serious problem and it infuriates me that someone would so blatantly spread mis-information in that manner. Grrrrr. End rant.

 

[manna]

ah I see @golden Never thought about this really and it being originally for men. Interesting. I know one gal with M.E. claimed she got real bad palpitations from doing yoga. Not sure exactly why. I wonder if qui gong is similar? As in for men. Polarity yoga, invented by Dr. Randolph Stone, is easier for me though I can't do some of the poses. Gotta keep yerself a bit supple n jiggly eh

 

[golden]

Oh boy. I'm a personal trainer, meditation, Pilates and Tai Chi instructor, and Yoga practitioner, and I agree with @metalnun. Every body is different. There are some poses that are not good for some people, Yoga and Pilates are not one size fits all, we get all that training so we can determine what will work for each individual. A pronounced lumbar curve is not healthy and causes many structural problems. Sorry, I can't get over how silly that article is. Deep breath. Prolapse is a very serious problem and it infuriates me that someone would so blatantly spread mis-information in that manner. Grrrrr. End rant.

Ok. So you think the article is 'silly' and it infuriates you.

Can you expand? Why exactly?

https://wholewoman.com/newpages/prolapseinfo.html

' What I can tell you with confidence, based on the thousands of women world-wide I have helped avoid surgery, is that you can almost always manage pelvic organ prolapse successfully for a lifetime, without surgery. Even women who are post-hysterectomy can see improvements.

How do I know? Because I suffered a profound uterine prolapse after a bladder suspension surgery. I have spent the past twenty years experimenting, studying, researching, writing and working with women from around the world and I have discovered the facts and techniques that can help you too.


I have degrees in both Anthropology and Nursing and have had to draw from a wide range of disciplines to piece together the prolapse puzzle. I started my company in 2003 when I published my book, Saving the Whole Woman, to help women just like you who don't want surgery but don't know where to turn. If you need information on how to successfully avoid surgery for pelvic organ prolapse, you've come to the right place. '

Here is a bit more info on this lady and her work.

 

[golden]

Why's it even relevant? Western Yoga has almost nothing in common with real Yoga anyhow.

Are you talking about these types of distinctions?

Why's it even relevant? Western Yoga has almost nothing in common with real Yoga anyhow.

Are you talking about these types of distinctions @Valentijn?

http://hippie-inheels.com/the-expert-shares-difference-between-eastern-and-western-yoga/

Hatha yoga did originate in India... wiki states it was transmitted from shiva to goddess pavarti... but later became westernised... i dont know about that.

Link coming shortly: >>>

 

[golden]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatha_yoga

 

[JAM]

Yes, I can explain why. Basic anatomy and physiology. Sorry to be so glib, but to suggest that the female form is meant to have a pronounced lumbar curve is nothing less than ridiculous. That pronounced curve comes from incredibly tight muscles in the low back and lax muscles in the abdomen that lead to a multitude of problems in many organs and structures of the body. Correcting that curve relieves so many types of pain.

Unless she has published in a respected journal or has testimonials with scans and medical records I am not going to take her "thousands of women" comment seriously. I have no doubt that she had those problems following that surgery. That result is well documented. I am not going to bother looking at or picking apart her "techniques", they may very well be effective, or not, but her sales pitch turns me off so much I refuse to waste my time.

I have degrees too, and certifications, and licenses, but would never make the crazy claims she does and if she had a license or certification I could probably get it revoked considering the claims she is making. I will be doing that research. She is preying on women who are desperate and that is despicable.

The suggestion for Polarity Yoga may be helpful for you, Dr. Stone's books are a bear to read, but the techniques are quite amazing. You may also want to look into Rolfing.

 

[Valentijn]

@golden - Yeah, pretty much. Basically the commercial version is for hyperactive posers and taken to silly extremes, without any meditative or spiritual aspects. It's probably better to think of it as another workout, rather than yoga.

 

[JAM]

http://www.amazon.com/Saving-Whole-Woman-2nd-Edition/product-reviews/0970144016/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_2?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addTwoStar&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

The third review explains exactly what will happen when you stand in the suggested "exaggerated posture":

"The only other thing I would caution every woman is to be careful with your back, I stopped doing any crunches and always stood in the exaggerated posture. After loosing all muscle tone with by girdle belly muscles my back began to go out. It would go out at anything, and would take two days to recover. After research and having a better understanding of my tummy muscles and back muscles I realized I lost all back support. I began doing ab exercises and my back rarely if ever goes out, I will never loose that support again."

 

[metalnun]

'We get many calls from Yoga practitioners and teachers who are shocked to find they have prolapse. “How could this be? I’ve been practicing Yoga for thirty years.” is a common comment'. (Christine Kent).


Thanks metalnun. Do you have the names of these 'fear mongering authors' - as i would like to read more.

I havent tried these new techniques, but I am going to pursue this since I already had this intuition anyway.
Maybe difficult to rid the conditioning.



Golden

Christine Kent is one. The most famous fear-monger is William J. Broad, who wrote several articles in the NY Times which have since been largely debunked by yogis and medical professionals.

Yoga when performed correctly - which means using the proper breathing technique, adapting the poses to your needs and listening to your body!! - is one of the safest activities according to statistics. Even done incorrectly, which unfortunately may be the norm in the west these days, it is still safer than, e.g., golf. Insurance companies rely upon injury statistics to determine their premiums, and I can tell you that liability insurance for teaching yoga is quite cheap.

But, again, preexisting conditions such as organ prolapse can affect the safety of any activity.

 

[metalnun]

Why's it even relevant? Western Yoga has almost nothing in common with real Yoga anyhow.

Very true! However, it is "relevant" in that at least 15 million people in America are doing quote-unquote "yoga."

 

[golden]

@golden - Yeah, pretty much. Basically the commercial version is for hyperactive posers and taken to silly extremes, without any meditative or spiritual aspects. It's probably better to think of it as another workout, rather than yoga.

people are where they are at. its just what happens.

 

[golden]

Christine Kent is one. The most famous fear-monger is William J. Broad, who wrote several articles in the NY Times which have since been largely debunked by yogis and medical professionals.

Yoga when performed correctly - which means using the proper breathing technique, adapting the poses to your needs and listening to your body!! - is one of the safest activities according to statistics. Even done incorrectly, which unfortunately may be the norm in the west these days, it is still safer than, e.g., golf. Insurance companies rely upon injury statistics to determine their premiums, and I can tell you that liability insurance for teaching yoga is quite cheap.

But, again, preexisting conditions such as organ prolapse can affect the safety of any activity.

@JAM @metalnun

http://williamjbroad.com/the-science-of-yoga/

I will have a read-a-round. Thanks. Are there any other names you deem as fear mongerers @metalnun?

I havent yet looked or tried CKs methods. But I will. So far it seems lije the onky fear mongering being done is from @JAM and your self, metal nun.

Unless I get a proper response from you both detailing where exactly the flaws are - not simply as yiu said @JAM its A&P

Then something is certainly awry.

BW
Golden

 

[JAM]

Calling us the fear mongers in this scenario is laughable. I was very specific about the one thing I read that she suggests. She is claiming that adopting the posture that can contribute to prolapse and a multitude of other problems is a "cure" for prolapse. "Not treating lordosis could lead to an increased risk of problems with the spine, hip girdle, legs, and internal organs." http://www.healthline.com/symptom/lordosis that is just the first one I found.

Anyone who understands basic anatomy and physiology will tell you she is a quack out to swindle women in need. I'm all for alternatives, my treatments are all herbs, exercises, meditations, etc., and for that reason I get really upset when someone like this comes in and makes all alternative therapies look like quackery.

She is trying to build fear around a system that has been around for centuries and proven safe and effective not only in practice but in study after study. Are there inexperienced and ignorant yoga teachers out there who can lead people into exercises that will cause harm? Absolutely. Does that mean we should dismiss the whole system? Absolutely not. There are also plenty of yoga instructors out there who work only with women and are experts in the differences between female and male anatomy and physiology if that is what you would make you feel more comfortable.