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XMRV & Osteoporosis & bone marrow & white cells

FernRhizome

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ukxmrv:
I agree with you! My severe osteoporosis has nothing to do with calcium, vit, D, or magnesium. Those levels are all fine. It is disease specific first, and then also secondary to the symptoms of cfs which include exercise and orthostatic intolerance and gut dysmotility. But probably it is disease first of all....maybe XMRV and combined with genetics.

UKXMRV would you be wiling to share your t-score info with me? I have -5 t-scores, about as severe as they can get.....will probably fracture long before there is an XMRV treatment. How severe are you and your family???? ~FernRhizome
 

ukxmrv

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Fern,

I'll ask my Mother to put togther a selection of scores and post as a private message to you. I don't know how many of them will have their measurements as this is the UK and people sometimes don't get specific results. This may take a while as a close relative just died and others have had operations. Thanks for the post. I hope we can learn something new here.
 
W

wornout

Guest
I have osteopoenia and low vitamin D levels. I had breast cancer in 99 (It's gone) but that's when my health problems started. Diagnosed with fibro and now doctors think I have CFS too. I did 8 high does cheomos with 10 shots of neuprogen to stimulate stem cells. I always thought the neuprogen shots had something to do with my health problems. With this XMRV link I'm almost positive it did. I have to wait to get tested. Can't afford it right now
 
D

DysautonomiaXMRV

Guest
I'm sure you guys know this, but I think Inflammation can cause Osteoporosis too.
 

FernRhizome

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Very exciting new research on treating osteoporosis! So far in animal studies but moving to clinical trials for IBS and hopefully soon osteoporosis. This is particularly interesting in light of the recent retrovirual conference in SF in which animal studies showed XMRV in the gut. Maybe XMRV in the gut causes excess serotonin and that reduces bone density!!! The puzzle pieces just might come together. ~Fern

Gut-derived serotonin inhibition offers novel osteoporosis strategy
By Lynda Williams
10 February 2010
Nature Med 2010; Advance online publication
MedWire News: Gut-derived serotonin (GDS) production may offer a novel target for anti-osteoporosis therapies, suggests preliminary research published in the journal Nature Medicine.

“These results provide a proof of principle that inhibiting GDS biosynthesis could become a new anabolic treatment for osteoporosis,” say Gerard Karsenty (Columbia University Medical Center, New York, USA) and co-authors.

The majority of serotonin is located in the duodenum and, as reported by MedWire News, the team demonstrated previously that gut serotonin inhibits bone mass accrual.

The researchers now say that blocking GDS production prevented and reversed osteoporosis in postmenopausal mice, without altering serotonin levels in the brain.

To investigate, the team synthesized a small molecular inhibitor of tryptophan hydroxylase-1 (Tph-1), the first enzyme required for biosynthesis of GDS. The small molecule, LP533401, or a placebo was fed to ovariectomized mice and controls for 28 days at varying doses.

As expected, ovariectomized mice given placebo developed osteopenia, while sham-surgery mice did not. However, ovariectomized mice given LP533401 had higher bone mass than placebo-treated mice, and this was attributed to an increase in osteoblast numbers, the bone formation rate, and osteocalcin serum levels.

“These results establish that LP533401 can prevent the development of ovariectomy-induced osteoporosis in mice,” the team reports.

Next, the researchers examined the impact of GDS inhibition on ovariectomized mice left untreated for 6 weeks before a 6-week course of LP533401 or placebo. Importantly, LP533401 treatment reversed ovariectomy-induced osteopenia in the vertebrae and long bones of the mice, increasing bone mass comparable to levels found in sham-surgery animals.

“These results establish that LP533401 can rescue, through a bone anabolic mechanism, ovariectomy-induced osteoporosis in mice even when given at a low dose (25 mg/kg body weight per day) and late after ovariectomy and that it does so without deleterious consequences on hsemostasis or intestinal motility,” say the authors.

While the impact of LP533401 has yet to be investigated in humans, the researchers conclude: “ The fact that this small molecule can be administered orally, promotes only bone formation and, for the purpose of treating osteoporosis, is needed at a relatively small dose and only once daily, suggests that inhibitors of GDS synthesis have the potential to become a new class of bone anabolic drugs that can be added to the armamentarium to treat osteoporosis.”

MedWire (www.medwire-news.md) is an independent clinical news service provided by Current Medicine Group, a trading division of Springer Healthcare Limited. Springer Healthcare Ltd; 2010

Free abstract
 

SunnyGal

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I've not had my bone density tested but before getting sick w/ CFS my dentist always commented on how good my jaw bone density looked. Then after being sick 5-6 years he commented that my jaw bone had lost density. Maybe I should have a bone density test done. :worried: I am + for XMRV.

My sister was diagnosed with osteoporosis at age 40. My father has prostate cancer. My mother has CFS/FM symptoms but doesn't want to be diagnosed with it. And, don't know if this could be related to XMRV, but my brother (only other sibling) had Hodgkins Lymphoma. Would be interesting if XMRV was a common thread for all these illnesses in my family...

Sunny
 

Adam

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Hi SunnyGal

I've not had my bone density tested but before getting sick w/ CFS my dentist always commented on how good my jaw bone density looked. Then after being sick 5-6 years he commented that my jaw bone had lost density. Maybe I should have a bone density test done. I am + for XMRV.
I have just been to dental hospital. They said I lost 80% bone density in upper jaw, 50% in lower jaw. It sounds bad, but the Doc/Dentist did not seem too excited about it. I am confused about the whole subject and will need to speak to my consultant to ask if I need a full body bone scan. Anyone help any further?

Adam
 

SunnyGal

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Hi SunnyGal

I have just been to dental hospital. They said I lost 80% bone density in upper jaw, 50% in lower jaw. It sounds bad, but the Doc/Dentist did not seem too excited about it. I am confused about the whole subject and will need to speak to my consultant to ask if I need a full body bone scan. Anyone help any further?

Adam
Thanks for sharing, Adam. That does sound bad, but I guess that's a bit reassuring that your doc/dentist didn't seem too excited about it. Let us know if you find out anything else. Now I'm really wondering about my bone density. I've not let them do dental x-rays in years so no idea if mine has gotten worse. My doc gave me an order to do a bone density scan when she heard my sister was diagnosed with osteoporosis at age 40, but I didn't do it (too ill to go). I can probably get another order for it. Hopefully someone here will have more info on this.

Sunny
 

Adam

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Thanks Sunny

I think if you want to keep your teeth its a good idea!

I'll post something when I know more. Along with smoking (blamed for evrything these days), lack of exercise is a problem when it comes to bone density, I undertand. I only cover around 300 to 400 metres daily in winter, all done in short five or ten yard bursts. Not enough I expect. I am lactose intolerant in a big way too. And a veggie. So not much going for me.

all the best Adam
 

SunnyGal

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Thanks Sunny

I think if you want to keep your teeth its a good idea!

I'll post something when I know more. Along with smoking (blamed for evrything these days), lack of exercise is a problem when it comes to bone density, I undertand. I only cover around 300 to 400 metres daily in winter, all done in short five or ten yard bursts. Not enough I expect. I am lactose intolerant in a big way too. And a veggie. So not much going for me.

all the best Adam
Oh, those are all good points, Adam. I'm unable to get much exercise (fatigue and heart issues), don't eat dairy, and I would like to keep my teeth! Guess I'd better get that bone density test done.

Interestingly (I think), my sister who was diagnosed with osteoporosis at age 40 has a history of breaking bones very easily since she was a child. My father started breaking bones easily when we were children. Hmm, all this seemed to start about the same time I began having health issues. Perhaps we all got XMRV around the same time back then... who knows. Anyway, they are both currently on osteoporosis drugs (she for her osteoporosis and he for prostate cancer treatment which causes menopausal like symptoms including osteoporosis.. I think from suppressing testosterone, but I'm not sure).

Best to you, Sunny
 

SunnyGal

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Saw my Lyme doc yesterday and he said lots of his patients have bone density issues, so now I've got a script to go have my bone density checked. Here's hoping it comes back okay...

Sunny
 

aquariusgirl

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I got a bone density scan in 2008 when I was age 40.
T-score eadings were as follows:
AP SPine 0.4
Dual femur neck left -0.4
Dual femur, neck right -0.4
Dual femur total left 0.4
Dual femur total right: 0.3

Readings number 2 &3 are 10 % below young normal.

So not osteopenia.. but a little bit worrying for a relatively young woman, huh?
 

FernRhizome

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If you are still in the normal range you don't really need to worry at all! Some folks start out below the 100% mark.....it could be "normal" for you.....
 

natasa778

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interesting discussion, only coming to this now so sorry if mentioned already but there is data/studies showing reduced bone mass/mineral density in children with autism
 

SunnyGal

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I had my bone scan done today. The results will be ready in about a week but I may not get the results until I see my LLMD in early May. However, they measured how tall I am and I'm a half of an inch shorter than I used to be. I'm not even 45 yet. Doesn't look too good. :worried:

Sunny
 

FernRhizome

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Sunny: let us know! I've lost 50% of my spine density yet I have not lost anything in height. Though at a 35-50% functioning I can do very limited careful slow strength/stretch stuff and some tai chi, both of which help maintain height.