Daffodil
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LOOK AT THE POWERPOINT PRESENTATION:
http://treatingxmrv.blogspot.com/
the antiretrovirals work!!!!!
http://treatingxmrv.blogspot.com/
the antiretrovirals work!!!!!
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XMRV: ARVs---READ THIS!!!!
- Thread starter Daffodil
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eric_s
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Thanks. Unfortunately i don't have an office suite installed on this computer and i have to leave in 30 minutes, so i can't look at it.
It seems they studied some forms of cancer, not CFS, but still it sounds very interesting.
Great to see that Mikovits, Lombardi and team are pushing things forward and creating facts while others just talk and wonder if there really is something. As soon as i can, i will make another donation to the WPI.
mojoey
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I'm confused...were all the XMRV+ patients treated with ARVs or just that one patient with 3 year history of untreated CLL and CFS symptoms?
PDF file of poster
Not being medically trained, I cannot figure out what this document means. I converted it to a PDF file. Hopefully someone else can interpret the data into layman's language.
View attachment Snyderman_XMRV-1..pdf
Lynn
Not being medically trained, I cannot figure out what this document means. I converted it to a PDF file. Hopefully someone else can interpret the data into layman's language.
View attachment Snyderman_XMRV-1..pdf
Lynn
I got this message when I clicked on the original link:
"This file is no longer available.
The file you are looking for is no longer being shared at this address. The link has either expired or the owner of the account has decided to stop sharing the file. If you still need to access this file, please contact the owner of this MobileMe account."
Perhaps the paper was not meant to be leaked???
"This file is no longer available.
The file you are looking for is no longer being shared at this address. The link has either expired or the owner of the account has decided to stop sharing the file. If you still need to access this file, please contact the owner of this MobileMe account."
Perhaps the paper was not meant to be leaked???
mojoey
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Hey danny,
Dr. Deckoff-Jones said she had permission to post it
Dr. Deckoff-Jones said she had permission to post it
Daffodil
Senior Member
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i can see the file fine...its there!
Jemal
Senior Member
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It's hard to make sense of... at least for me.
All the patients participating in this research had CFS and cancers? Ack.
All the patients participating in this research had CFS and cancers? Ack.
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It appears that they are now linking CLL and MCL (cancers) with XMRV for the first time???
If you look at the graph at top right of the .pdf, it appears that it took 6-7 months of ARV therapy to get there.
BW
If you look at the graph at top right of the .pdf, it appears that it took 6-7 months of ARV therapy to get there.
BW
Daffodil
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BW...it isnt the first time those cancers have been linked. they suspected it for years.
this is proof ARV's lower viral load.
perhaps i should not have been so hung up on latent proviral load problem...the virus produces "chronic replicative" infection in those monkeys so perhaps ARV's will be the way to go. maybe the slower recovery speed (as compared with HIV) has to do with the fact that the virus just replicates slower?? i dont know...
this is proof ARV's lower viral load.
perhaps i should not have been so hung up on latent proviral load problem...the virus produces "chronic replicative" infection in those monkeys so perhaps ARV's will be the way to go. maybe the slower recovery speed (as compared with HIV) has to do with the fact that the virus just replicates slower?? i dont know...
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Why it's important...
Here's what I posted in the comments there on why JDJ might have referred to this "little" poster as "historically important."
In addition, the poster reveals some of the cytokine markers Mikovits has been using for XMRV. I haven't had time to look at these, but some of the smarter forum posters may be able to tell us more about these.
Here's what I posted in the comments there on why JDJ might have referred to this "little" poster as "historically important."
"There are many historically important things about this study, but the ones that are pretty mind-blowing in my view:
1. That XMRV could be both detected in these cancerous cells and generated (expressed) from cell cultures made from these cells makes for a strong association between the virus and the diseases.
2. That antiretroviral therapy lowers not only cytokine markers for XMRV, as one might expect, but actually lowers markers for the tumors themselves... along with clinical improvements, strengthens the potential causal association.
3. #2 is just mind-boggling because it suggests that the cancerous conditions are being driven or maintained by the continuous presence of the virus, rather than that the virus turns on the genes for the cancer (or off genes that prevent it) and then its presence or absence has no effect.
Think of it this way- you could treat these cancers by antiretrovirals rather than chemo, radiation or surgery.
Or another way- maybe cancer is the result not the problem.
This is big stuff if it bears out in larger groups.
Besides all that, there is that little thing of those folks who are XMRV positive being able to prevent potential cancer... "
1. That XMRV could be both detected in these cancerous cells and generated (expressed) from cell cultures made from these cells makes for a strong association between the virus and the diseases.
2. That antiretroviral therapy lowers not only cytokine markers for XMRV, as one might expect, but actually lowers markers for the tumors themselves... along with clinical improvements, strengthens the potential causal association.
3. #2 is just mind-boggling because it suggests that the cancerous conditions are being driven or maintained by the continuous presence of the virus, rather than that the virus turns on the genes for the cancer (or off genes that prevent it) and then its presence or absence has no effect.
Think of it this way- you could treat these cancers by antiretrovirals rather than chemo, radiation or surgery.
Or another way- maybe cancer is the result not the problem.
This is big stuff if it bears out in larger groups.
Besides all that, there is that little thing of those folks who are XMRV positive being able to prevent potential cancer... "
In addition, the poster reveals some of the cytokine markers Mikovits has been using for XMRV. I haven't had time to look at these, but some of the smarter forum posters may be able to tell us more about these.
Hi Lynn,
I got the error message when I clicked on the powerpoint file on the blog, but had no problem with the PDF file. :Retro smile:
Jemal
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Yeah, the Powerpoint file seems to be down.
Daffodil
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i can access it fine..
yes....how can ARV's work on tumors? tumors are driven by mitosis of cancer cells....that is just bizarre
yes....how can ARV's work on tumors? tumors are driven by mitosis of cancer cells....that is just bizarre
Gemini
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Jimk,
Thank you for the excellent summary of the study's importance.
I can only wonder if this why Dr. Collins spent so much time at the conference?
Gemini
Thanks for explaining all that JimK, I too was struggling to make sense of it. I don't understand cancer well enough to properly understand why the finding seems so bizarre, but I do know that smart people regard "bizarre" anomalies as potentially important, even revolutionary, and the source of significant new scientific knowledge...whereas the conservative mindset regards "bizarre" findings as things to be automatically dismissed as "impossible". I've felt for a long time that XMRV could turn out to be one of the most important scientific discoveries for decades, and every result like this just strengthens that sense. Really exciting stuff!
OK so I've just done a bit of reading to try to understand this point. First impression of a self-confessed amateur is: Isn't it more accurate to say that tumors are driven by errors in the process of mitosis? The cell division goes wrong. So the implication of these results would then be: XMRV can cause errors in the mytosis of certain types of cells? Remove the XMRV, and the mytosis stops going wrong? Could XMRV do that directly, or could it alternatively suppress some natural mechanism for correcting faulty mytosis? Final thought: being a gammaretrovirus, the size of XMRV seems significant and it could potentially be "packaged" by other cells. So if it were able to get inside certain types of cells, could that cause the mytosis to fail? All seems to make reasonable sense to me...but perhaps that's because I don't really understand it...
Daffodil
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i dont understand any of it....but i remember ila singh stating in her paper that XMRV does not seem to have any direct cell transforming properties....