XMRV and Chronic Fatigue and Autism: Praise from Caesar

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This blog entry is very negative about the connection between XMRV and other diseases and the author gets very emotional.

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2010/10/xmrv_and_chronic_fatigue_and_a_1.php

...Let me be clear, I cannot comment on a connection/correlation between XMRV and autism. There has been nothing published. Nothing for me to review. What I can do is address a few things.
Judy Mikovits-- "On that note, if I might speculate a little bit," she said, "This might even explain why vaccines would lead to autism in some children, because these viruses live and divide and grow in lymphocytes -- the immune response cells, the B and the T cells. So when you give a vaccine, you send your B and T cells in your immune system into overdrive. That's its job. Well, if you are harboring one virus, and you replicate it a whole bunch, you've now broken the balance between the immune response and the virus. So you have had the underlying virus, and then amplified it with that vaccine, and then set off the disease, such that your immune system could no longer control other infections, and created an immune deficiency."
That is profoundly stupid. If an attenuated/killed/protein vaccine is enough to terrorize these childrens immune system, then why wouldnt a real infection do the same damn thing?

That comment isnt 'speculation'. That comment is stupidity which defies basic logic.

Furthermore, Judy Mikovits and the WPI and VIPDX are in a collaboration with BioRay. BioRay is a woo-company that sells crap. They sell colloidal silver. They also sell CytoFlora, which they say treats autism.

What a crazy random happenstance that Judy can 'find XMRV' in autistic kids.

What a crazy random happenstance Judy chose to support antivaccination efforts at AutismOne.

What a crazy random happenstance Age of Autism is comparing WPI to Oskar Schindler, and seamlessly meshing their anti-vaccination stance with WPIs 'new findings'.

By not speaking honestly about XMRV, we have created a monster.

A woo-monster.

It does not matter, at this point, whether finding MLV is a random hiccup of science. A contamination that sent us on a wild-goose-chase for a few years. It does not matter anymore. Subsets of the CFS and autism communities will always believe that their disease was caused by a retrovirus now. It does not matter what scientists say or find anymore. It does not matter what reality is anymore.

Dont believe me?

Groups like Age of Autism wont drop the vaccines-->autism hypothesis, and that turned out to be blatant, blazon fraud. If they wouldnt reassess their worldview when that came out, why would anyone expect them to drop the XMRV story if it turns out to be a simple mistake? And considering Judy/WPIs alignment with woo companies and homeless drugs looking for illnesses to treat, Im being generous by saying they may have potentially just made a 'simple mistake'. More generous than Miss Judy is, when dealing with her 'colleagues'.

Im glad other scientists have got their heads back and are treating XMRV/human-MLV-like/magic-eye-MLV with a more skeptical eye now. But I think its too little, too late. Though some fractions of the CFS/autism community dont act like it at times, they are grown adults. They dont need to be talked down to. They dont need their hopes needlessly raised by people they are supposed to be able to trust. Theyve had to deal with a lot of bullshit and disappointment in their lives.

From the many supportive comments and emails I get, they want reality and practicality and an honest assessment of the data, like everyone else. If you give people anything less than this, dont act surprised when an autism/anti-vax/pro-crap-supplement monster emerges.

Im not.
 

natasa778

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If an attenuated/killed/protein vaccine is enough to terrorize these childrens immune system, then why wouldnt a real infection do the same damn thing?
and indeed it does!

this guy's ignorance is astounding.

diesel may I ask why you copied this drivel here?
 

anciendaze

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I found his comment ridiculous and insulting but couldn't debilitate some of his arguments like the one you mentioned. That's why I wanted to get some input.
I think you mean debunk his arguments. The significant thing here is the shift to ad hominem attacks and guilt by association, and the extent to which he moves away from discussion any specifics of the research. (If mainstream medicine tells you only that you have "false illness beliefs", where does he expect people to look for help?)

Interesting that he ignores involvement by Silverman, the Ruscettis and Alter. Apparently in his mind only this wild Mikovits can get positive results. This makes it pretty clear where the discussion connects with laboratory science, and where we are hearing opinions based on other opinions.

Incidentally, I believe the statement about ME/CFS patients not dying is an artifact caused by shifting diagnostic labels when one does die. I can find no way to distinguish early signs and symptoms of chronic lymphocytic leukemia or mantle cell lymphoma from ME/CFS except the progression to lethal disease. We now have preliminary data showing XMRV in precisely those patients who go on to develop the full diseases. These alone account for thousands of excess deaths every year.

Improved treatment has reduced AIDS deaths by about 80%. Considering that around one million people in the U.S. are infected with HIV the 16,000 deaths in 2002 are now getting into the range where it is harder to distinguish deaths caused by HIV from unrelated causes in an aging population. This does not support complacency about HIV, but it indicates current mortality due to HIV is within an order of magnitude of possible mortality due to XMRV, even at this early stage of research.
 

eric_s

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Oh, it's ERV... If i had known this, i would not have worried and not read the posting (no offence intended, Diesel ;)). Compared to other posts, this one is actually very nice and moderate. ERV also criticized the Lo/Alter paper as not being very well done :rolleyes:. She's a student and Alter has discovered Hepatitis C and gotten the highest distinction a civilian public servant can get in the USA, if i'm not mistaken. That does not mean she has to be wrong and he has to be right, but it would make me think a bit before writing in this way...
 

eric_s

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No, problem, it was interesting, but she has already said some things that in Germany probably would get you convicted. She called Judy Mikovits some very bad names, insults without any connection to the science. Right from the start she was extremely critical and rude.
 

acer2000

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Its ERV... don't even bother. She keeps claiming that she "is done with" CFS and XMRV but yet she can't resist posting stuff. She's an idiot. Don't feed her web traffic by clicking on her blog or commenting. She gets off on the attention.

There may be legitimate research questions about XMRV and CFS yet to be answered, but ERV's blog is certainly not a thoughtful commentary about these issues. Justin Beiber's twitter feed is more mature, I can assure you. And certainly less hateful.
 

Sean

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It is much worse than that. She is an arrogant and vicious idiot who is utterly convinced she is right. Worst kind.

Don't feed her web traffic by clicking on her blog or commenting. She gets off on the attention.
Yep. Do not add to her blog traffic. Ignore her. She is a lost cause. A desperate attention seeking nobody. Trying to engage with her is pointless, she and her rabid fan pack have made up their minds. Well, they have made their bed, and now they have to lie in it. They can't pretend they didn't say these things.

I can only wonder if she has any idea how much damage she is doing to her professional reputation, and all this before she has even finished her scientific training.
 

George

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LOL, Yeah I took one look at the web address saw the "erv" and almost clicked out but was curious about folks actually commenting????? (grins) but yeah what acer said "oh, it's erv", don't feed her self obsession. (big grins)