Why do I get blurred vision from Milk Thistle?

jason30

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Hi,

I wonder if someone have an idea why Milk Thistle cause blurred vision on the next day I took it?
I do have some liver problems such as fatty liver and I have toxic buildup.
In other cases, when my liver have a hard time, I never get blurred vision.
I do know that milk thistle is high in histamine and sulfur. From histamine I do know that I don't get blurred vision when it's high. I don't know about sulfur.
Recently a blood test showed high potassium (I don't take potassium supplements) and high iron saturation (51%).
Some minerals are low.

Does anyone have an idea?

Thanks.
 

Gondwanaland

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jason30

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That's probably it. Perhaps some magnesium would help it.
I get bad reactions if I ingest MT powder, so when I take it, I put half of the contents of a capsule inside a tea bag, brew it for 5 minutes and then drink it.
That's interesting, does that holds the bad reactions away for you?

In my personal experience when serum electrolytes are high it means deficiency, but that might be just me.
It is? Is there an other test to determine the potassium level or is it just looking at symptoms?

Thanks a lot!
 

Gondwanaland

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That's interesting, does that holds the bad reactions away for you?
No bad reactions at all if I am tolerating MT (I am currently not tolerating it) :cautious:
It is? Is there an other test to determine the potassium level or is it just looking at symptoms?
This is in my personal experience, I don't know if it holds for everyone. I have no idea about how to determine the potassium level...
 

percyval577

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I wonder if someone have an idea why Milk Thistle cause blurred vision on the next day I took it?
I do have some liver problems such as fatty liver and I have toxic buildup.
In other cases, when my liver have a hard time, I never get blurred vision.
When I first took milk thistle it was not only quit of a good effect (which got reduced over about seven times),
but I got also some joint pain.
This very joint pain I got also from an experiement with a neuroleptic/antipsychotic - I knew already it should not be of much help as Tyrosine regularly helps me. But the situation does not appear in clarity: In order of to much nitric oxide Dopamine should be reuptake-inhibited, so what´s to think about? -
Anyway, my guess would be, milk thistle likes to work in the striatum best to inhibit nitric oxide synthase, and might cause something.
 
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Carl

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TCM links the eyes to the Liver so maybe MT is affecting a portion of your Liver detox and maybe another aspect of your Liver detox is not coping with the increase. Fatty liver might also be affecting this. Have you tried phosphatidyl-choline which is in lecithin to help with your fatty liver?
 

jason30

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No bad reactions at all if I am tolerating MT (I am currently not tolerating it) :cautious:

This is in my personal experience, I don't know if it holds for everyone. I have no idea about how to determine the potassium level...
Okay I will keep an eye on potassium, because I always thought I was deficient in it.
 

jason30

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When I first took milk thistle it was not only quit of a good effect (which got reduced over about seven times),
but I got also some joint pain.
This very joint pain I got also from an experiement with a neuroleptic/antipsychotic - I knew already it should not be of much help as Tyrosine regularly helps me. But the situation does not appear in clarity: In order of to much nitric oxide Dopamine should be reuptake-inhibited, so what´s to think about? -
Anyway, my guess would be, milk thistle likes to work in the striatum best to inhibit nitric oxide synthase, and might cause something.
Interesting to know that MT inhibit nitric oxide synthase, thanks!
 

jason30

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TCM links the eyes to the Liver so maybe MT is affecting a portion of your Liver detox and maybe another aspect of your Liver detox is not coping with the increase. Fatty liver might also be affecting this. Have you tried phosphatidyl-choline which is in lecithin to help with your fatty liver?
Indeed, that matches with my symptoms. I am really curious which aspect or which liver pathway it is affecting.
Is there a way to figure this out?

Currently I only use Choline Birtrate to raise choline levels. I have tried PC (soy free) before but it gave tightened leg muscles which interupts my sleep. Not only PC gives tightened leg muscles but also other things. I still didn't figured it out what that could be.

Thanks!
 

Sundancer

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I wonder if someone have an idea why Milk Thistle cause blurred vision on the next day I took it?
milkthistle should give liverphase 2 a push-up, but also dampens one of the phase 2 processes
http://www.ei-resource.org/easyblog...nce-phase-1-and-phase-2-liver-detoxification/

Silymarin from the herb milk thistle protects the liver and generally speeds up most phase 2 reactions, although it slows down glucuronidation.
also it contains quite a lot of salicytate, when your body does not like salicytate, it leads to trouble.
 

jason30

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milkthistle should give liverphase 2 a push-up, but also dampens one of the phase 2 processes
http://www.ei-resource.org/easyblog...nce-phase-1-and-phase-2-liver-detoxification/
Thanks a lot, that's very interesting.
Calcium Glucarate seems to stimulate the glucuronidation pathway.
I am gonna test if I have less reaction to Milk Thistle if I take Calcium Gluarate before it.

also it contains quite a lot of salicytate, when your body does not like salicytate, it leads to trouble.
Salicytates are on my radar. I am gonna test some foods which are high in salicytates, to see if they give me the same blurred vision symptom as Milk Thistle does.

Thanks again!
 

jason30

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To those who have it as well. I think I am a bit closer to an answer (or not?)
I also get blurred vision from Schisandra.
In my research for an answer I have found the only match between Schisandra and Milk Thistle is that both lower blood sugar levels.
I have hypoglycemia and I guess this affects me extra.

  • - Silymarin has been reported to decrease fasting blood sugar and fasting insulin levels, especially in insulin-dependent diabetics who have cirrhosis.
  • - Schisandra may lower blood sugar levels
Though, both have their effect on the liver, liver cleansing properties and phase 1 and 2 enzymes activity. So there could be something on that part going on as well.
Also, both contains iron and both treat hepatitis.
 

Gondwanaland

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Your experience? In my of taking both at modest doses for 10 years liver markers improved only.
I took Milk Thistle for several months and stopped tolerating it (not sure for what reason). For my husband it clearly became hepatotoxic - his ferritin is very high and it chelates iron. I wonder if it is high manganese which is known to cause migraines/headaches.
 

pamojja

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For my husband it clearly became hepatotoxic - his ferritin is very high and it chelates iron
But if it chelates iron (milk thistle or schisandra?) with a high ferritin, that even would be beneficial?!

My ferritin stayed the same low normal, though.
 
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pamojja

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That's need closer attention to what is said:
When people supplement certain herbs to "cleanse" their liver, they will always affect manganese and iron status. For instance, by taking Devil's Claw on an ongoing basis, they will eventually raise manganese and iron levels. On the other hand, taking higher amounts of Milk Thistle will in time decrease manganese and iron stores, which can be an advantage with hemochromatosis (excess iron storage disease), where regular consumption of milk thistle, RNA / DNA, zinc, magnesium and Vitamin B2 - as individually matched - will return iron levels closer to normal, and frequently eliminate the need for phlebotomies.
Emphasis to higher amounts added by me. While regular amounts just normalize iron levels and are beneficial with excess iron.

Regular doses of milk thistle (about 350 mg/d standardized to 80% silymarins for 10 years) in my case improved liver enzymes and gave the benefits just as predicted:

serum iron: from 99 µg/dl to 111 from beginning to end of 10 years supplementing milk thistle. 97 in avg., 59-158 normal range. 85- 130 optimal range.
ferritin: from 76 ng/ml to 79. 79 in average. 30-400 normal range.
hair manganese: from 0.83 ug/g to 0.46. 0.35 in average. 0.1-1.3 normal range. 0.3-0.4 optimal range

And both become hepatotoxic from long-term use.
Any other source which actually supports this opinion?
 

pamojja

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Recently a blood test showed high potassium (I don't take potassium supplements) and high iron saturation (51%).
High potassium in serum can simply be caused from taking the blood draw too fast. Did you have high potassium and high transferrin saturation repeatedly?

Transferrin saturations of less than 20% indicate iron deficiency, while transferrin saturations of more than 50% suggest iron overload.
 

Gondwanaland

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Any other source which actually supports this opinion?
https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/milk-thistle/#Dosage_and_Side_Effects
Side effects associated with oral ingestion of milk thistle include:

  • Gastrointestinal problems but are rare (e.g; nausea, diarrhea, dyspepsia, flatulence, abdominal bloating, abdominal fullness or pain, anorexia and changes in bowel habits) (R).
  • Headache (R).
  • Skin reactions (pruritus, rash, urticaria, and eczema) (R).
  • Neuropsychological events (e.g asthenia, malaise and insomnia) (R).
  • Arthralgia (pain in joint) (R).
  • Rhinoconjunctivitis (nasal congestion, runny nose, sneezing etc) (R).
  • Impotence (R).
  • Anaphylaxis (serious life threatening allergic reaction) (R).
My husband had the 1st two above and stopped tolerating it.