What's your CD4/CD8 ratio?

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
15,685
Likes
46,386
Cd4 and cd8 are a type of T cell lymphocyte. Generally activated during an infection. To get these tested u need to ask for a lymphocyte sub set test. May have different names in different countries. Can use it as evidence that u have immune dysfunction going on. Most GPs aren't use to reading or ordering these tests.
@heapsreal Thanks for the info and no doctor has ever ordered this test for me. I will ask for it when I see CFS doctor in a few weeks. What is the ratio supposed to be? I posted a question in another thread that you probably know the answer to- what is "lymphocyte percent auto" testing for and what does it mean if your numbers are slightly low?
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
9,452
Likes
9,232
Location
australia (brisbane)
@heapsreal Thanks for the info and no doctor has ever ordered this test for me. I will ask for it when I see CFS doctor in a few weeks. What is the ratio supposed to be? I posted a question in another thread that you probably know the answer to- what is "lymphocyte percent auto" testing for and what does it mean if your numbers are slightly low?
ratio is mostly used in HIV and a low number shows their immune system is tiring but i think now most just use the cd4 as an indicator of hiv being full blown aids and antiretrovirals are either added or changed etc

cd8 is commonly high in herpes viruses like ebv/cmv/hhv6, so this might indicate they are an issue. be good to have a few of these tests done several months apart to see any patterns etc If say u have high cd8 for 3-4 tests done 3 monthly, they cant just flop it off as oh u probably had a cold or a benign type of virus type of a thing. If u have a pattern of high t cells then its better evidence too?
 
Messages
45
Likes
14
I've found you can get these tested privately in the UK - is it worth it? I mean will anyone (Drs) take any notice or is it more for us? (not sure how to word it but I'm sure you understand what I mean!)
 
Messages
45
Likes
14
The only immune tests I've had are IgG, IgA, IgM and subclasses - low in IgM and IgG3 & IgG4. These are the other results...


WHITE CELL COUNT *12.06 x10^9/L 3.0 - 10.0

Lymphocytes 2.95 x10^9/L 1.2 - 3.65

LYMPHOCYTE IMMUNOPHENOTYPE

WHITE CELL COUNT 12.06 x10^9/L

Lymphocyte count 2.95 x10^9/L 1.2 - 3.65

CD3 percentage 83.1 % 57.22 - 86.8

CD3(T Lymphocytes) 2.45 x10^9/L 0.87 - 2.51

CD3(T Lymphocytes) 2451 cells/uL 870 - 2510

CD4/CD3 percentage 56.5 % 30.58 - 60.81

CD4/CD3(Helper T Lymphs) *1.67 x10^9/L 0.56 - 1.46

CD4/CD3(Helper T Lymphs) *1667 cells/uL 560 - 1460

CD8/CD3 percentage 26.1 % 9.8 - 36.47

CD8/CD3(Cytotoxic T Lymph) 0.77 x10^9/L 0.25 - 0.99

CD8/CD3(Cytotoxic T Lymph) 770 cells/uL 250 - 990

CD4/CD8 ratio 2.16 0.54 - 2.97

CD19 (Percentage) 5.04% 4.16 - 26.11

CD19 (Absolute value) 0.15 x10^9/L 0.11 - 0.69

CD56 (Percentage) 12.38 % 6.0 - 29.0

CD56 (Absolute value) 0.37 x10^9/L 0.01 - 0.60

Comp Classical Pathway - CH50 *>65 kU/l 23 - 46

Complement Alternative Pathway 109 % 66 - 129

Mannan/Mannose binding Lectin*<0.05 mg/l 1.0 - 4.00
 
Messages
32
Likes
9
cd4/cd8 = 1.92 for me - normal
cd4 total = 379 ( 628 - 1698)
cd8 = 197 ( 258-797)
yes my immune system is weak
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,397
Likes
5,697
My CD4/CD8 ratio is low - 0.86 (0.92-3.72)

Absolute CD4 - 734 /uL (359-1519)
Percent CD4 - 31.9% (30.8 - 58.5%)
Absolute CD8 - 858 /uL (109 - 897)
Percent CD8 - 37.3% (12 - 35.5%)
 

Rlman

Senior Member
Messages
388
Likes
360
Location
Toronto, Canada
The only immune tests I've had are IgG, IgA, IgM and subclasses - low in IgM and IgG3 & IgG4. These are the other results...


WHITE CELL COUNT *12.06 x10^9/L 3.0 - 10.0

Lymphocytes 2.95 x10^9/L 1.2 - 3.65

LYMPHOCYTE IMMUNOPHENOTYPE

WHITE CELL COUNT 12.06 x10^9/L

Lymphocyte count 2.95 x10^9/L 1.2 - 3.65

CD3 percentage 83.1 % 57.22 - 86.8

CD3(T Lymphocytes) 2.45 x10^9/L 0.87 - 2.51

CD3(T Lymphocytes) 2451 cells/uL 870 - 2510

CD4/CD3 percentage 56.5 % 30.58 - 60.81

CD4/CD3(Helper T Lymphs) *1.67 x10^9/L 0.56 - 1.46

CD4/CD3(Helper T Lymphs) *1667 cells/uL 560 - 1460

CD8/CD3 percentage 26.1 % 9.8 - 36.47

CD8/CD3(Cytotoxic T Lymph) 0.77 x10^9/L 0.25 - 0.99

CD8/CD3(Cytotoxic T Lymph) 770 cells/uL 250 - 990

CD4/CD8 ratio 2.16 0.54 - 2.97

CD19 (Percentage) 5.04% 4.16 - 26.11

CD19 (Absolute value) 0.15 x10^9/L 0.11 - 0.69

CD56 (Percentage) 12.38 % 6.0 - 29.0

CD56 (Absolute value) 0.37 x10^9/L 0.01 - 0.60

Comp Classical Pathway - CH50 *>65 kU/l 23 - 46

Complement Alternative Pathway 109 % 66 - 129

Mannan/Mannose binding Lectin*<0.05 mg/l 1.0 - 4.00
this is a lymphocyte subset panel I think so no need to test for it privately
 

joe12

Senior Member
Messages
114
Likes
27
Messages
17
Likes
8
Location
Southeastern Pennsylvania
My ratio is high. I think I requested the test based in someone's recommendation, so my primary had no idea what it meant (and didn't care) and my specialist doesn't seem to know what to make of it.
My stats:
T & B lymphocyte/Nat Killer

% CD 4 Pos. lymph.
70.0 high (Range: 30.8 -58.5)

% CD 8 Pos, lymph.
11.2 low (Range: 12.0 - 35.5)

CD4/CD8 ratio
6.25 high (Range: .92 - 3.72)


From this site:
http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=167&ContentID=cd4_cd8_ratio
"Higher than normal results may mean you have:
  • Major infection
  • Viral infection
  • Type of blood cancer"

 
Messages
17
Likes
8
Location
Southeastern Pennsylvania
Still curious about this... my primary doctor really acted like my blood test results didn't matter... like there is nothing wrong with me (yes, I am looking for a new primary doctor). This isn't my only high/low result, but he really just discounted them all. I wasn't in his office asking for pain killers or for disability... I was trying to get some validation that there is something wrong with me, and maybe find a path towards healing. This indicates something, right? 6.25 seems quite high for a range of .92-3.72. I have chronic sinusitis -- 3 surgeries have made some improvement, but I think I have an infection right now-- and my chronic fatigue and joint pain got worse after I caught parvovirus B19 in 2010. Am I justified in thinking my doctor is an idiot and a jerk? (This is what I get for picking a primary care doctor because their office answers the phone.)
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,397
Likes
5,697
It could definitely be a sign of an ongoing infection. Is there any way you could see an infectious disease doctor?
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,831
Likes
6,285
I have had high CD8 for maybe decades. My doctor says this means virus but I am negative for everything. Maybe we aren't even making antibodies..? Maybe its a still unidentified virus! :(

Despite the XMRV fiasco, a new virus is still the theory that makes the most sense to me. Every single thing would fit.
 

Mij

Senior Member
Messages
2,353
Likes
4,970
Still curious about this... my primary doctor really acted like my blood test results didn't matter... like there is nothing wrong with me (yes, I am looking for a new primary doctor). This isn't my only high/low result, but he really just discounted them all. I wasn't in his office asking for pain killers or for disability... I was trying to get some validation that there is something wrong with me, and maybe find a path towards healing. This indicates something, right? 6.25 seems quite high for a range of .92-3.72. I have chronic sinusitis -- 3 surgeries have made some improvement, but I think I have an infection right now-- and my chronic fatigue and joint pain got worse after I caught parvovirus B19 in 2010. Am I justified in thinking my doctor is an idiot and a jerk? (This is what I get for picking a primary care doctor because their office answers the phone.)
I saw a Virologist and he didn't make much of my results either. My CD ratio was high/increased and all my lymphocytes were below normal range. I don't think they're idiots or jerks. They just don't make much of it.

I was tested for many viruses etc and they all came back negative.
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,397
Likes
5,697
It doesn't even need to be a new virus. Look at how much trouble we have reliably detecting the pathogens we already know about. My doctor tested me for enterovirus and it came back negative. Then I had the proper tests done and they came back positive.

You can see above my CD8 count is elevated but not strikingly so. Still that slight elevation was enough of a clue to keep looking for a pathogen even when everything initially came back negative.
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,486
Likes
1,082
wbc 2.9 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL
cd4/cd8 ratio 1.82 0.92-3.72 1
% cd 8 pos. lymph. 24.6 12.0-35.5 %
% cd 4 pos. lymph. 44.8 30.8-58.5 %
% cd 3 pos. lymph. 78.1 57.5-86.2 %
abs. cd 8 suppressor 295 109-897 /uL
absolute cd 4 helper 538 359-1519 /uL
absolute cd 3 937 622-2402 /uL
ab nk (cd56/16) 144 24-406 /uL
% nk (cd56/16) 12.0 1.4-19.4 %


% cd8-/cd57+ lymphs 8.0 2.0-17.0 %
abs.cd8-cd57+ lymphs 96 60-360 /uLz


Not sure what to make of this yet.
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,486
Likes
1,082
It doesn't even need to be a new virus. Look at how much trouble we have reliably detecting the pathogens we already know about. My doctor tested me for enterovirus and it came back negative. Then I had the proper tests done and they came back positive.

You can see above my CD8 count is elevated but not strikingly so. Still that slight elevation was enough of a clue to keep looking for a pathogen even when everything initially came back negative.

What were the proper tests versus the improper ones?
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,397
Likes
5,697
What were the proper tests versus the improper ones?
For enterovirus it needs to be a microneutralization assay. Most doctors seem to only order the complement fixation assay from Focus Diagnostics which is only sensitive enough to detect the virus in the acute phase.