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What’s Up With Ivermectin?

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
Kory's meta-review finally got published.

Kory, Pierre MD1,*; Meduri, Gianfranco Umberto MD2; Varon, Joseph MD3; Iglesias, Jose DO4; Marik, Paul E. MD5 Review of the Emerging Evidence Demonstrating the Efficacy of Ivermectin in the Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19, American Journal of Therapeutics: May Jun 2021 - Volume 28 - Issue 3 - p e299-e318
doi: 10.1097/MJT.0000000000001377
 

TiredBill

Senior Member
Messages
335
Merck manufactures Ivermectin. They are urging people not to take this potentially dangerous drug that has no proven efficacy against Covid 19.

Dr. Kory is simply not credible.

The FDA and the European Medicines Agency and the World Health Organization are all advising people not to take this medication outside of clinical trials.

Bill
 

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
Merck manufactures Ivermectin.

Dozens of companies manufacture Ivermectin. It's like Paracetamol, which is often prescribed for COVID-19. Yet, Paracetamol doesn't have proven efficacy or safety with COVID-19. Shall we ask any of the dozens of companies that manufacture Paracetamol if it's the right thing to prescribe? It's just pointless to do so or to bother what any company with conflicting interests has to say on the matter.

They are urging people not to take this potentially dangerous drug that has no proven efficacy against Covid 19.

As I've elaborated, this drug is not more "potentially dangerous" than any other drug. In fact, Ivermectin is one of the safest drugs you can find. It has a better safety profile than Paracetamol, comparing their toxicity profiles only, not to mention the reported severe adverse events, which are attributed to parasites and not to the antiparasitic treatment with Ivermectin, while Paracetamol has plenty of reports of hepatoxicity.

The current evidence of moderate quality suggests that Ivermectin may be efficacious against COVID-19. The claim that "there is no proven efficacy" is a play with words of some media sites to point out their own narrative. This isn't scientific. The scientific methodology requires completeness. By mentioning only one side of the coin, but not the other side of the coin, you're making an opinion out of facts. By mentioning only the flawed JAMA study, while ignoring all the other studies, these media sites are spreading an opinionated narrative.

Dr. Kory is simply not credible.

This is your opinion - based on what argument? Do you know the CVs of Dr. Kory and his colleagues? Wasn't he credible when he supported dexamethasone to be integrated into guidelines before the Oxford study was published and the official bodies responded?

The FDA and the European Medicines Agency and the World Health Organization are all advising people not to take this medication outside of clinical trials.

The NIH does not follow this standpoint. In Mexico and other countries, Ivermectin is already recommended.

The FDA hasn't reviewed the data and has not published any official and reviewed guideline. Their article is just a press release following reports of Equine Ivermectin use. Of course, they can not recommend animal products for humans. This will never change even after a large RCT.

The WHO has not transparently reviewed all the data. Their recommendation is based on a few studies that they picked while not following their own published review methodology. Dr. Tess Lawrie already analyzed the WHO recommendation and found inconsistencies in the numbers and respective interpretations. The WHO is not an independent organization. Their budget is bound to political interests, the Gates Foundation, and many vaccine manufacturers and pharmaceutical companies. This is a conflict of interest.

The EMA's review is even more intransparent than the one of the WHO since they don't provide any data or reference to what exactly they reviewed. Their stance ignores the urge during this pandemic to have a treatment where there is currently no treatment available. For vaccines, they accept long-term risks for an experimental approval. But they do not for early treatment options, which only affect infected people and not the whole population, as vaccines do ultimately. Quite the double standard, don't you think?
 

TiredBill

Senior Member
Messages
335
I'm (unfortunately) highly aware of Pierre Kory and his promotion of of an anti-worming drug to treat Covid-19.

Are you aware that his group's paper on ivermectin was rejected by the medical journal Frontiers in Pharmacology?

The journal determined that organization called the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC) contained unsubstantiated claims and violated the journal’s editorial policies. “Further, the authors promoted their own specific ivermectin-based treatment which is inappropriate for a review article and against our editorial policies. In our view, this paper does not offer an objective nor balanced scientific contribution to the evaluation of ivermectin as a potential treatment for COVID-19.”

Bill
 

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
Are you aware that his group's paper on ivermectin was rejected by the medical journal Frontiers in Pharmacology?

Their paper went through the peer-review process and was approved by the reviewers. Only at the last second, the superiors of the counseling editor of the journal decided that the study violates their policies. Isn't it surprising that they noticed this only after peer-review? For what it's worth, another renowned journal published it this month.

The same happened to Dr. Tess Lawrie and she doesn't promote any ivermectin-based treatment protocol. She just reviewed the data as she's done for any other medications prior to this, since this is her job. Only in this instance, editors or their superiors, again after positive peer-review, decided that they can not publish the meta-review because it recommends the use of Ivermectin as a treatment during a pandemic based on the fact that it may be helpful against COVID-19. They want a large RCT, which can not provide evidence of the same quality as a meta-review. But they want it. Dr. Tess Lawrie argues that the lack of safety risks and the potential benefits outweigh the requirement of large high-quality RCTs because this would violate the Declaration of Helsinki, according to which you can not wait and do nothing while harm is done.
 
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Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,377
Location
Southern California
THIS THREAD IS BEING RE-OPENED. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM ARGUMENTATIVE POSTS WHICH SIMPLY RESTATE YOUR POSITION. THEY DISRUPT THREADS AND PREVENT CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION.
 
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Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,377
Dozens of companies manufacture Ivermectin. It's like Paracetamol, which is often prescribed for COVID-19. Yet, Paracetamol doesn't have proven efficacy or safety with COVID-19

neither does the Tamiflu my mediocre insurance sent me in some home COVID kit-
 

antares4141

Senior Member
Messages
576
Location
Truth or consequences, nm
Through discussion of Ivermectin on Joe Rogan:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/7uVXKgE6eLJKMXkETwcw0D

Without listening to it I am skeptical of Bret Weinstein cause he always seems to be implying some type of subterfuge, or duplicity among authorities regarding not using ivermectin for covid. And authorities not adequately funding research because of special interest's or ulterior motives.. There might be some truth to this. Even dr Danial Griffen on TWIV alluded to the underfunding for efficacy of ivermectin part.

I did also get an anti-vax type of vive from Weinstein. At least from the limited time I spent listening. Maybe 3 of his dark horse podcast.

I do recommend clinical updates with dr Daniel Griffen on TWIV. He does briefly mention a clinical trial or two and the conclusion from the authors I think in one of the last few updates he's done on covid. Of which I think are around 60 now.

Everyone on twiv are highly qualified to discuss this issue. With degree's and PHD's in parasitology and virology and as much as 50 years experience. And all promote people getting vaccinated. Weinstein with his "evolutionary biology degree" I suspect not so much. The other interviewee Dr. Pierre Kory is an ICU and lung specialist I can't speak to. Don't know anything a about him.

I can tell from listening to Dr Griffen that he is very sympathetic towards long covid victims and unlike a lot of the dr's that are already trying to promote the idea it is psychological Dr Griffen believes it is physiological.

And Dr Griffen is a treasure trove of information.