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What tests should be done to ascertain if antivirals should be trialed?

BenFromNZ

Senior Member
Messages
151
That is the case with all ME/CFS doctors: they use the antibody levels (titer or index level).

Just being positive and low on an antibody test means you may have caught the infection in the past, and the infection is now dormant, or the infection has been entirely eliminated from the body. People typically maintain residual antibodies even decades after catching an infection. So positive and low means a past infection.

But if it is positive and high, then that signifies that you may have an active infection, and thats what ME/CFS specialists want to know.





Which information, and adequate for what?
Right, so I am aware of what you were saying about the tests and past infections etc and that the me/cfs dr's look at whether the levels are high. Normally they don't give the levels at all in NZ just positive or negative. So specifically what I'm unsure about is the response in the email where he said "I’ll email you back the raw quantitative results. Please note that CMV IgG will be in arbitrary Abbott units, EBV IgM will be a Sample/Cut-off ratio" - I'm unsure if that information will be adequate for telling me whether the levels are high. I'm unfamiliar with "abbot units" or if there will be anyway for me to tell what is considered high by looking at it. I'm also unsure of what he means by the "EBV Igm Will be a Sample/Cut off ratio" and whether that is going to be adequate for knowing whether the levels are high. So I'm just wondering if you think these test would be worth doing if that is the information they will be giving me.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
Please note that CMV IgG will be in arbitrary Abbott units, EBV IgM will be a Sample/Cut-off ratio" - I'm unsure if that information will be adequate for telling me whether the levels are high. I'm unfamiliar with "abbot units" or if there will be anyway for me to tell what is considered high by looking at it.

I think that should be adequate to determine whether your antibodies are high.

I have not heard of Abbott units before, but some of my viral antibody tests are given as an index number, with the units of AU/ml. So maybe AU = Abbott unit.

Usually with antibody tests, the lab report will state your antibody level, and also state the reference level for a negative result.

For example, on the cytomegalovirus IgG antibody test I took in London, my results were:
Positive 206.8 AU/ml

< 6.0 AU/ml non-reactive

So this number 6 AU/ml tells you that if your results are 6 or above, you are positive, but if below 6 then you are negative.

Then to see how high you are above the reference level for negative, you divide the antibody level by the reference level for negative, like this: 206.8 / 6 = 34. So this gives me a ratio of 34.

So my cytomegalovirus antibody levels are 34 times higher than the reference for negative, which is high.

There is no precise figure for what constitutes high, but I explain here in my roadmap that having an antibody level about ≥16 times higher than the reference for negative might be considered high.



For the EBV test, he is going to provide you with the ratio: Sample/Cut-off. The sample means your antibody level, and the cut-off means the reference level for a negative result.

So he is going to do the exact division for you that I did above, namely dividing antibody level by the reference level for negative. So if the EBV ratio figure he gives you is around 16 or above, then that might be considered high.
 

BenFromNZ

Senior Member
Messages
151
Thanks @Hip,. I really appreciate your responses. They’re very helpful. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem labs in Australia or New Zealand normally give out the antibody levels and reference levels. They just give + or - and that’s it! Anyway sounds like this info this guy will send me might do the trick then. Thanks!
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,089
Location
australia (brisbane)
Thanks @Hip,. I really appreciate your responses. They’re very helpful. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem labs in Australia or New Zealand normally give out the antibody levels and reference levels. They just give + or - and that’s it! Anyway sounds like this info this guy will send me might do the trick then. Thanks!

I agree with hip.
Although it doesnt indicate the actual infection, a high cd8 T lymphocyte test is commonly high in herpes infections like cmv and ebv. Lymphocyte sub set test will show this as well as give you nk numbers but unfortunately not the nk function, but not uncommon for cfsers to have low nk numbers.

My next thought is when the world opens up, it might be possible to get all the appropriate testing cheap done in Thailand😉 and have a good cheap holiday.