What happened to my body as a result of taking the C19 Vaccine?

Guwop2

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I first took the AZ vaccine 4 months ago, and for 3 of those months I was unable to walk for more than 10/20 metres without severly crashing (I could go running 3 times a week prior to the vaccine). There seemed to be no signs of improvement for 3 continuous months, until I saw a chinese herbalist (out of desperation) who managed to aleviate the symptoms by about 75%. I still cannot exercise properly (running/pushups etc), but I have improved - though showing no signs currently of getting that extra 25% back. My question relates to trying to gain clarity on what happened to my body.

People often describe the severity of their reponse to the vaccine - "i had 2 days of fever and was bascically fine afterwards", "didnt feel a thing", "had a few aches but they went away" etc etc. My symptoms were that I had a fever over the first 2 days, during which time my scalp turned bright red, then proceeded to peel over the following week - all relatively 'normal' reponses. After these first few days of fever I felt fine, going about stuff as normal, despite a few low-grade aches and pains. Then just over a week after taking the jab I was out walking around town with a friend and had to sit down (i'd been walking for about 2 hours - relatively normal for me up till then). I took the train home and was in bed for a 2 days, after which I realised I was unable to walk even to take the bins out without getting exhausted (a form of P.E.M totally different from what I had expereince before). I also had developed brain fog, which I had never experienced before, and body aches. These symptoms were not my usual M.E symptoms, although they sound similar when writing them down. They seemed to be operating parallel/seperate to my usual, and main, M.E constitution, which I could descibe as the main operating system for me (as an aside, do people here ever get ill from a flu/cold, and the illness feels like it's happening to an organism seperate from your main M.E infected organism? - like the illness is being run in a sandbox, to use computing terminology? - I do).

To cut a long question short, I seemed to have had 2 responses; one was my immediate reponse (2 days of fever, rash on head, skin peeling), the second kicked in a week later, lasted for 3 months, and is characterised by hyper-sensitive PEM, a recurring ache at the site of the vaccine jab as well as occasional body aches. These symptoms have been reduced by about 75% through some chinese herbs, but still persist (the herbs seemed to have calmed my body down).
Can anyone here tell me what they understand might be the reason behind these long-term effects of taking the vaccine? Why was/is my body struggling so much? Is this a warning sign that my body cannot cope with this particular vaccine (seems so)? Is it an allergy, my immune system going haywire, something else?


Any ideas or thoughts on this issue would be hugely appreciated at this moment when im wondering whether to get the second dose and risk a potentially irreversable 25% lopped off my health chart.
 
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Boba

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Hi! What I can tell from my experience is that I had 2 responses as well. First was the acute infection, which was a flu for 4 days and a week after PEM started. Fatigue was no big deal but PEM hit me hard. Was able to do less and less over time. Now I can’t leave the house anymore. So you getting back at 75% sounds good, obviously 100% would be better, but I hope you’ll get there too. The 2nd reaction seems like an abnormal system response leaving the body in a me like state.

Edit: It was the virus not the vaccine for me
 
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Hey, I had my first Biontech nearly five weeks ago. First day flu-like, since then still recovering fatigue-wise. My guess is that the immune activation doesn't calm down / needs longer to calm down. Which either worsens the basic mechanism (whatever that is) of ME, or it brought the body into that monocyte-blood vessel mechanism Bruce Patterson just proposed for Long Covid. He sais this can happen after the vaccine, too.
 

Guwop2

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Hi! What I can tell from my experience is that I had 2 responses as well. First was the acute infection, which was a flu for 4 days and a week after PEM started. Fatigue was no big deal but PEM hit me hard. Was able to do less and less over time. Now I can’t leave the house anymore. So you getting back at 75% sounds good, obviously 100% would be better, but I hope you’ll get there too. The 2nd reaction seems like an abnormal system response leaving the body in a me like state.
Interesting that there is consistency between our two responses. The chinese herbs i took noticeably calmed my body response down and the bad symptoms have levelled out quite a bit. I wonder id they would work for you too (I'm based in the U.K and give you details if youre interested).
Guessing you wont be getting the second dose?
 

Guwop2

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Hey, I had my first Biontech nearly five weeks ago. First day flu-like, since then still recovering fatigue-wise. My guess is that the immune activation doesn't calm down / needs longer to calm down. Which either worsens the basic mechanism (whatever that is) of ME, or it brought the body into that monocyte-blood vessel mechanism Bruce Patterson just proposed for Long Covid. He sais this can happen after the vaccine, too.
I have said elsewhere that it feels like the Vaccine gave me Long-Covid (which people balked at..), since the effects are different from my usual M.E and correspond closely to the testomonies given my Long-Covid sufferers. Ive never heard of B Patterson, will look him up. Will you go for a second dose? Im probably not going to risk it in case recovery doesn't occur.
 
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To cut a long question short, I seemed to have had 2 responses; one was my immediate reponse (2 days of fever, rash on head, skin peeling), the second kicked in a week later, lasted for 3 months, and is characterised by hyper-sensitive PEM, a recurring ache at the site of the vaccine jab as well as occasional body aches. These symptoms have been reduced by about 75% through some chinese herbs, but still persist (the herbs seemed to have calmed my body down).
Can anyone here tell me what they understand might be the reason behind these long-term effects of taking the vaccine? Why was/is my body struggling so much? Is this a warning sign that my body cannot cope with this particular vaccine (seems so)? Is it an allergy, my immune system going haywire, something else?
mRNA is a very interesting therapy.

I've had Covid-19, and now the variant. We call it Covid-21 :D

I wouldn't want to take a shot that causes my body to produce these spike proteins. I'm delighted that I'm overcoming this extremely dangerous virus and fortunate to have payed attention to many of the members here that researched and shared solutions.
 

Guwop2

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mRNA is a very interesting therapy.
I dont know anything about it..guessing it's not widely available? Is it likely to be less disruptive to vulnerable immune systems (M.E ones)?

I've had Covid-19, and now the variant. We call it Covid-21 :D



I wouldn't want to take a shot that causes my body to produce these spike proteins. I'm delighted that I'm overcoming this extremely dangerous virus and fortunate to have payed attention to many of the members here that researched and shared solutions.
If there are any threads you'd recommend I pay attention to, that'd be hugely appreciated.

(Covid 21 makes sense 😅)
 
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Ive never heard of B Patterson, will look him up.
The newest post on HealthRising is about it
Will you go for a second dose?
Gooooood question. Currently, I plan to. I will confer with my GP next week. Here in Germany the gap between the Biontech shots normally is six weeks, but I'm definetely gonna push that a few weeks. Actually, I also considered trying a TCM practitioner to see whether there are some immune amphoterics or anything else that could stabilize my system and balance the immune response after the shot.

I'm optimistic that I will get back to baseline in about two weeks or so. I just don't know if I will be as lucky a second time.
 
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I dont know anything about it..guessing it's not widely available? Is it likely to be less disruptive to vulnerable immune systems (M.E ones)?
That's what you've received.
Understanding mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines

mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine to protect against infectious diseases. To trigger an immune response, many vaccines put a weakened or inactivated germ into our bodies. Not mRNA vaccines. Instead, they teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies. That immune response, which produces antibodies, is what protects us from getting infected if the real virus enters our bodies.
A Closer Look at How COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines Work




COVID-19 mRNA vaccines give instructions for our cells to make a harmless piece of what is called the “spike protein.” The spike protein is found on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19.

  1. First, COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are given in the upper arm muscle. Once the instructions (mRNA) are inside the muscle cells, the cells use them to make the protein piece. After the protein piece is made, the cell breaks down the instructions and gets rid of them.
  2. Next, the cell displays the protein piece on its surface. Our immune systems recognize that the protein doesn’t belong there and begin building an immune response and making antibodies, like what happens in natural infection against COVID-19.
  3. At the end of the process, our bodies have learned how to protect against future infection. The benefit of mRNA vaccines, like all vaccines, is those vaccinated gain this protection without ever having to risk the serious consequences of getting sick with COVID-19.

Harmless is inaccurate.
 
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hapl808

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I wouldn't want to take a shot that causes my body to produce these spike proteins. I'm delighted that I'm overcoming this extremely dangerous virus and fortunate to have payed attention to many of the members here that researched and shared solutions.
What treatments did you find personally helpful when you had Covid? Seems like reinfections are still relatively uncommon - sorry to hear you got it twice.
 

Guwop2

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The newest post on HealthRising is about it

Gooooood question. Currently, I plan to. I will confer with my GP next week. Here in Germany the gap between the Biontech shots normally is six weeks, but I'm definetely gonna push that a few weeks. Actually, I also considered trying a TCM practitioner to see whether there are some immune amphoterics or anything else that could stabilize my system and balance the immune response after the shot.

I'm optimistic that I will get back to baseline in about two weeks or so. I just don't know if I will be as lucky a second time.
The TCM dr I saw had been treating a lot of people suffering from Long-Covid and I believe treated me with success using (I think) the same methods. Since you may be waiting a few more weeks to let yourself recover before the next shot, and since TCM turns things around fairly quickly (around 2 weeks and you see results), maybe it's worth consulting with a practitioner now and see if your current negative responds? Just a thought
 

Boba

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Interesting that there is consistency between our two responses. The chinese herbs i took noticeably calmed my body response down and the bad symptoms have levelled out quite a bit. I wonder id they would work for you too (I'm based in the U.K and give you details if youre interested).
Guessing you wont be getting the second dose?
It wasn’t the jab but the virus for me. Sorry I didn‘t make that clear in my post. I would love to level out, however I crashed badly several times leaving me in a destroyed state. My body responded with more and more symptoms. Docs advised me to exercise to get well again… I listened which was a bad mistake. If you could share your protocol with me, that would great. Send me a pm if u like.
 

ljimbo423

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Can anyone here tell me what they understand might be the reason behind these long-term effects of taking the vaccine?
I think it might be that the vaccine caused a big immune response in your body, which caused the microglia (immune cells in your brain) to become more "sensitized" or "primed". Making your ME/CFS symptoms worse.

"Sensitized" or "primed" microglia is what ME/CFS researcher Jarred Younger has found in ME/CFS patients and believes is the cause of symptoms.

The question he's still trying to answer is what's causing the ongoing microglia activation. Because the microglia are sensitized, it doesn't take much to activate them, is what Jarred thinks.

I think it's primarily chronic immune system activation in the body causing activated microlgia. The question that needs to be answered is what is causing this ongoing immune activation in the body, that's activating the microglia, so that it can be treated.

It sounds like the TCM herbs you've been taking have reduced or balanced this immune system activation in your body, to some degree. Therefore reducing microglial activation and your symptoms.
 

Guwop2

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It wasn’t the jab but the virus for me. Sorry I didn‘t make that clear in my post. I would love to level out, however I crashed badly several times leaving me in a destroyed state. My body responded with more and more symptoms. Docs advised me to exercise to get well again… I listened which was a bad mistake. If you could share your protocol with me, that would great. Send me a pm if u like.
I actually dont know what the Chinese herbalist gave me, but it was a formula she put together after consulting with me over Skype (the formula was tailored to my specific symptoms). This was the practice I used here in the uk - http://yidaoclinic.co.uk/.
here's a website on which you can search for practitioners on, though i think it's UK-based https://rchm.co.uk/

Good luck -)
 
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I actually dont know what the Chinese herbalist gave me,
I use my chinese herbalist all the time. I;ve gone to him intermittently for about 20 years now. Sometimes I can entirely clear and cure acute symptoms, but mostly its effective at reducing the intensity of unpleasant symptoms...so its easier to tolerate. Maybe there is a "cure"....but I've not stumbled into it yet.

I'm glad you found help there. Yes, they do custom individual medicine, by using mixes of herbs, and addressing variable symptoms, depending upon your body' s unique set of circumstances.
 

blueberry

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Hi @ Guwop2 , I had the second dose of the AZ vaccine 3 months and one week ago, my reaction after the first one was 2 days of feeling quite viral/fluey but back to baseline (moderate ME) within the week. After the second shot, exactly the same, BUT one week after the 2nd dose I developed what felt like a really nasty virus, unlike any other I've experienced, major swollen glands, base of throat very sore and tender, abject exhaustion, sleeping all the time. The first GP I spoke to tentatively accepted it was due to the vaccine, and put that on my sick note for work, Three weeks later the symptoms were still there, I saw an actual GP face to face and he said it was a viral infection. The viral symptoms slowly cleared up but I've been left in a major ME relapse, gone from moderate (I was working 22 hrs per week) to being mostly in bed and have no capacity for activity beyond about 30 mins per day, and not all at once; this includes things like making a cup of tea or having a shower. It's bad, don't know when or if I'll be able to work again. N.B. I really don't want to put anyone off getting vaccinated, and for what it's worth, I think I still did the right thing, making my decision on the best evidence available.
 

hapl808

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N.B. I really don't want to put anyone off getting vaccinated, and for what it's worth, I think I still did the right thing, making my decision on the best evidence available.
Sorry to hear that and hope you improve. This is one of the most frustrating things about this disorder: you can make the right choices with the best available evidence and still end up with the wrong outcome.