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what are the options to enhance effect of benzo?

Pearshaped

...and then things went pearshaped.
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Hi
I take a short acting benzo twice during the night,the first dose together with 1/2 tablet of mirtazapine.
My problem is always the same: the second dose benzo doesn't work as well anymore so I end up being awake from 1:30AM til 6:30AM.What I treid so far to enhance the benzo:
Melatonin,5HTP(not good things for me)
taurine(helps a tiny bit)
Magnesium
glycine
Niacin
Trazodone(made me even more awake)

Are there other meds I could try?
I asked docs to give me a long lasting benzo but they don't want that.

Coming off the benzo is not an option for me at the moment.
Any suggestion is welcome.
Thank you.
 

junkcrap50

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Check druggie forums. They have lots of tips on how to increase effects of drugs. Guarantee they have your answer. Check /r/drugs and bluelight.org

Look up: Utra Low Dose Naltrexone, some ingredient in cough syrup (DXM i think), and tagamet. Some of those might help
 

Mary

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@Pearshaped - have you had your cortisol levels checked, not just in the morning, but during the day/evening? High cortisol at night can cause severe insomnia that almost nothing will touch. This happened to me. A good test to do is the Adrenal Stress Index Test - it's a saliva test using saliva samples taken 4 times during the day/ evening. My cortisol was high during the night when it should be low. I was told to take Seriphos (phosphorylated serine - NOT phosphatidyl serine - they are often equated with each other but they're not the same).

The Seriphos worked like a charm almost immediately. I had to experiment to find the right dose and ended taking 8 capsules a day in 2 divided doses, 4 when I first got up and 4 late morning. I don't recommend that anyone start with this, it's a high dose, but I needed that much initially. Eventually I was able to cut back and then cut it out altogether.

I also found that it was very important to take it in the morning. When taken at night it caused a weird awful insomnia, but taken in the morning I just felt calmer but not drugged or extra tired.

Most doctors will only check morning cortisol levels with a blood test, and that's just not enough.
 

Mary

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@Pearshaped - I have a couple of other suggestion. Just so you know, I took a benzo - lorazepam - for 11 years in the middle of the night for sleep. When I finally got off of it, it wasn't helping but I did not want to up my dose either - had gone from 0.5 mg to 1 mg. I think benzos can be good short term, but of course they don't get at the root of the problem.

Anyways, I've done a lot of experimenting with sleep. Magnolia extract powder from Bulk Supplements helped a fair amount, for awhile. I did eventually seem to develop a tolerance for it, it just stopped being as effective but it was good while it lasted.

Vitamin C helped me a lot in getting off the lorazepam because it can help mop up excess glutamate. I still take it before bed and during the night - and during the day as well. A lot of sleep issues have to do with excess glutamate.

l-theanine helped some.

I noticed you said that magnesium didn't help you. How much of what kind are you taking when? e.g., I tried magnesium citrate, it made my sleep worse due to the citrate and its relationship to msg. Magnesium taken in the morning did nothing for me. It was when I started taking high doses at night that it really helped - 400 mg. mag glycinate before bed and 400 mg more middle of the night.

Also, I had to stop my calcium supplement. Calcium and glutamate can work together to cause excitotoxicity: "glutamate is the gun while calcium is the bullet"

I had to cut out foods which contained anything on the following list at dinner, which meant basically no processed foods, including mustard and mayonnaise (who woulda thunk!): https://www.truthinlabeling.org/names.html

This past summer I discovered grounding/earthing for sleep. It felt too good to be true, but it is still helping me. See this thread. I started this thread 3 weeks ago, and if anything, my sleep is even getting a little better. This is a very cheap thing to try. I highly recommend it.
 

Pearshaped

...and then things went pearshaped.
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Thank you very much for that info @Mary.
Not even alcohol works.
Yes cortisol is probably an issue.I take magnolia and ashwagandha,and rhodiola as well as butterbur,lemon balm and valerian.
Seriphos seems to be VERY interesting but they don't seem to ship to switzerland.I'll check again.
did the seriphos made you jittery?
What do you think of phenibut?
Its nice to hear that someone here has came off a benzo with success and that grounding seems to help you so much.Im lying (almost)on the ground all the time,why doesnt it work for me? lol

I didn't try L-theanine.

I take magnesium citrate which i find pretty good,but didnt now citrate could cause a problem..
 

Mary

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@Mary is the Seriphos from Interplexus the right one?
did the seriphos made you jittery?
Sorry, I didn't see your reply earlier. The Seriphos from Interplexus is the right one. I don't know of any other company which makes it, unfortunately. It did NOT make me jittery. It made me calmer overall, better able to handle stress. But like I said it was very important to take it in the morning. I hope they ship to Switzerland! You might check out iherb: https://ch.iherb.com/pr/InterPlexus-Inc-Seriphos-100-Capsules/60068

A few years ago Interplexus changed the formula from phosphorylated serine to phosphatidyl serine, and there was a big outcry from customers - it didn't work nearly as well! It took them about a year or more but they finally went back to the original formula. I mention this on the off-chance that there could be stray bottles around labeled Seriphos which contain phosphatidyl serine instead of phosphorylated serine, but I think it's doubtful - it's been a few years now so that shouldn't be an issue.

I never tried Phenibut. I read it did have addiction potential so I didn't want to trade one addictive thing for another one!

If you haven't looked at my grounding thread that I linked in my other post, do take a look. There's a simple wrist strap (cheap) I use for it when I'm in bed. And also you're supposed to get your outlet checked before using it with a receptacle tester like the one that I linked in my post.

So you're in Switzerland - I got my grounding wrist strap from Amazon in the U.S. There is a post here which has a link to one in the UK: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/earthing-simple-and-cheap-methods.76133/#post-2229876

The mag citrate might be causing a problem for you. It might not be an issue for you, but it did cause insomnia for me. I do much better with magnesium glycinate.

Good luck @Pearshaped - I hope you get some help! :nerd:
 

panckage

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What do you think of phenibut?
Phenibut is that long lasting benzo-like that you are looking for I think. I take 1g (pretty bug dose) around 10am and it gives me good sleep that night. Seems to last 24 hours. Due to tolerance I take it no more than once every 3 days (or less). After a couple years of it working great I'm finding it not helping my sleep so much lately. Perhaps once every 3 days is a bit too often. Anyways its not something you can take everyday and because of cross-tolerance with benzos well its pointless to take both

The only other wonder for my sleep has been 100 mg tramadol ER. It lasts 24hrs best sleep since I got ME but because of tolerance issues I don't even bother with it anymore. Interestingly though the normal 50mg pills would keep me awake
 

Pearshaped

...and then things went pearshaped.
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@Mary @panckage Thank you so much for the info.
I'll definetely check the grounding thread and get the supplements and change the form of magnesium.

Since it's become much worse,im still happy for every suggestion.

I combined betablockers with my benzos and Unisom last night. Wide awake.Will update if I find smthg.that helps.
 

percyval577

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taurine(helps a tiny bit)
I noticed a small effect from taurine too, and later stopped it. Then I found out that the combo taurine-GABA is nice. I finally added tyrosine, though - probabaly due to effects of a bad drug that I took only once - I need to keep tyrosine small. It´s now still 6 : 6 : 1 (taurine : GABA : tyrosine).

GABA is of course a target for the benzo, so I don´t know if it wise to take it. I think taurine was named after the taurus b/c it was discovered in bulls, where it was found to be high in the nucleus caudatus, and they could stop the bull from running further by inducing an electrical current in it from outside. (So I have once read, but later I didn´t find any paper.)

edit: I think GABA and taurine are both not easily passing through the brain blood barrier (at least not normally).

@PearshapedI noticed you said that magnesium didn't help you. How much of what kind are you taking when? e.g., I tried magnesium citrate, it made my sleep worse due to the citrate and its relationship to msg. Magnesium taken in the morning did nothing for me.
I have been experimenting with citrate from lemon juice for a while now. I figured out a sequence of small amounts which is: VitC - Citrate - Acetate.
Its in 0.35 - 0.4 l each 300mg VitC, juice from a small or half a lemon, and a drop of vinegar, and I drink sip after sip (and all with a straw). I am on a good way from a low manganese diet, so maybe such a thing is prerequisite, or higher amounts are needed. I often find, the lesser the better, I also wait a bit until I take a next sip from the next stuff, some ten seconds or even quite some minutes.
 
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Mary

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I'll definetely check the grounding thread
I hate to say it, but the grounding wrist strap is not as effective as it was for about 3 or 4 weeks - :aghhh: I don't know what changed, and it might not even be the wrist strap that is the problem. Just the last couple of nights I've been awake for a couple of hours middle of the night (not as bad as you though!) and have taken extra lemon balm, valerian root, vitamin C and benadryl to go back to sleep. I hate the way benadryl makes me feel so am going to switch to unisom. Unfortunately unisom only works for me for a couple of weeks and then stops, so will keep researching and experimenting!

I do think the grounding where I sit outside with my feet directly in contact with the ground (cement in my case) is helpful, only it's too cold to do that now!
 

geraldt52

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Check out the cheney protocol: doxepin + klonopin:
It was Dr. Cheney's "neuro-protective" nonsense regarding Klonopin that led me down a path toward hell that continues now 20 years after last taking Klonopin. As near as I can tell Cheney simply made that up with no data to support it, along with the idea that folks with CFS won't develop habituation to Klonopin because we "need" it. I try not to think about the suffering I have endured for having listened to that nonsense.

I would be very careful trying to "enhance the effect of benzos", as it is little different than increasing the dosage of the benzo, which is a dangerous path to go down.
 

edawg81

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It was Dr. Cheney's "neuro-protective" nonsense regarding Klonopin that led me down a path toward hell that continues now 20 years after last taking Klonopin. As near as I can tell Cheney simply made that up with no data to support it, along with the idea that folks with CFS won't develop habituation to Klonopin because we "need" it. I try not to think about the suffering I have endured for having listened to that nonsense.

I would be very careful trying to "enhance the effect of benzos", as it is little different than increasing the dosage of the benzo, which is a dangerous path to go down.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I’m sorry to hear it did not go well. I know everyone reacts differently. Most of the ME dr protcols are based on clinical case subjective experiences since so little is still known about the pathology of this illness. In my case klonopin has helped in some instances and been a liability in others.
 
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Second star to the right ...
It was Dr. Cheney's "neuro-protective" nonsense regarding Klonopin that led me down a path toward hell that continues now 20 years after last taking Klonopin.
I second this. Klonopin was initially developed to compete against Dilantin in the epilepsy/seizure market, and when the income stream from that proved to be less than hoped for, Roche sales reps started pushing it to Drs as an off-label drug for anxiety, sleep issues, etc.

I think it's one of the more dangerous benzos, and that's saying a lot ....
 
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Second star to the right ...
I would be very careful trying to "enhance the effect of benzos", as it is little different than increasing the dosage of the benzo, which is a dangerous path to go down.
I couldn't agree more. Why in God's name anyone would want to potentiate the action of drugs already proven to be devastating to brain and neuro-transmitter/receptor function is beyond me. But then, so much of what the BigPharm drug companies manage to promulgate in terms of misinformation and disinforation is .....


Please keep in mind that drug companies exist to a certain extent to produce income streams from their products, and aren't too choosey about how they go about that. They have large and well-funded departments whose sole job is to figure out where to plant "information" about their drugs to reap maximum benefit to themselves and their shareholders.

Granted, this income also helps support R&D, but of what? SO far, not a cure or even a modest assist for the ME community.
 
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