What Are Some Of The Ways You've Learned To Help Avoid PEM?

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

dahsar said:
Anyways what works best for you to avoid PEM?

Hi, @dahsar ....
There are loads of threads on PEM related issues .... everyone has a different viewpoint, but the one way that everyone agrees on is: PACING ...

You need to develop a sense of how much you can do, along with the warning signs that alert you to the fact that you're doing, or have done, too much ...

I guess this involves a way to sort of measure your energy reserves before you start doing something that exceeds what you normally do at that point in the day, like deciding to clean out a cupboard in the early afternoon, a time when you know that you're usually running on half a tank, as it were ....

You also need to take into account all the steps in any given effort: cleaning out a kitchen cupboard involves not only the physical clearing out of stuff you don;t think you need anymore, but the mental effort (and mental effort is just as exhausting as physical effort) involved in thinking about what you may not need anymore, and then setting up an organizational system for those items you've cleared out of the cupboard prior to removal.

That's a lot of energy output, a lot more than the simple phrase ".... cleaning out a kitchen cupboard ..." would seem to imply.

I know it's not quite that simple, but that's the best way I could think of putting it...

For me, the warning signs that I've done, or am doing, too much is a sort of haziness that settles over me .... thinking capacity slows, body gets a little unsteady, sort of like being dizzy but without that spinney feeling .... that usually tells me to sit down and reconsider ....

I'm going to start a thread for you on this, because I think it's important to have more than one view. I'll tag you as soon as it's done, and if PR Central does its automatic job, the thread should quickly convert to one that you've opened yourself, and you can follow the responses and input you get pretty easily ...

 

[Wishful]

Warning signs? My physically-induced PEM had a consistent 24 hr delay; no early warning signs that I can remember. I had to learn by experience what sorts of activities would result in PEM. Then it was a matter of deciding whether to do something knowing the cost the next day. There certainly were days when I really felt like going for a long bike ride, and the PEM the next day was worth the pleasure of enjoying a day of riding. Luckily I never suffered lengthy crashes. That would certainly change the cost/benefit ratio.

For avoiding cerebrally-induced PEM, I've just given up socializing (well, except here) or unnecessary driving. Hmmm, I just realized that I don't think I got cerebrally-induced PEM from bike riding, even on bike rides that were longer than some drives. I think it's the stress level involved, or the amount of data processing. Driving requires a lot more peripheral attention, and the consequences of mistakes are much more severe. I did notice that driving on slippery roads with poor visibility caused much more severe PEM. So, since this thread is about tips, if you do suffer PEM from driving, I suggest scheduling your drives for times of minimal traffic in good weather and visibility.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

My physically-induced PEM had a consistent 24 hr delay; no early warning signs that I can remember. I had to learn by experience what sorts of activities would result in PEM. Then it was a matter of deciding whether to do something knowing the cost the next day.

Good point, @Wishful .... the hard thing is the one to two day lag between seriously overexerting and the appearance of the piper, demanding to be paid ....

But I can still feel, at least when I'm lucky, that place where I know that if I keep pushing, beyond this point there be dragons.

That's when it's time for a lie down, or whatever works for you to try to hopefully interrupt the cycle .... this includes abruptly ending phone calls when I start feeling drained .... turning down all social engagements, sadly .... reversing out of demanding need-to-do jobs before they're done, and bugger the begrudgers ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Hey @dahsar .... are you out there?

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@dahsar
Am trying to remember what I used to take, supplement or herb-wise, when all this started, that helped to stabilize me a little.

Some people need a lot more potassium, and that seems to work for them. I use a moderate dose first thing in the morning, and it seems to boost me into the day. I add it into a cup of warm water with some cinnamon and ginger and a little stevia.

Others have had bad or no reactions to cinnamon, etc, so it's something that you'll need to experiment with. For me, it works nicely. Not the Holy Grail fix, but it gets me over the morning hump ... @Wishful, if I'm remembering right, had a good response to, of all things, simple cumin ....

@Mary 's had good luck with BCAAs (Branched chain amino acids), and then later with Cellfood, which seemed to boost her thyroid nicely.

Who else here has had good, or bad, reactions to various substances ranging from vitamins to herbs to meds, that might be helpful for @dahsar to consider???

Am hoping that others will pitch in with whatever substances, along with the usual pacing, may have helped them

 

[ljimbo423]

But I can still feel, at least when I'm lucky, that place where I know that if I keep pushing, beyond this point there be dragons.

I get a little bit of a warning usually. I start to feel a little mild malaise, which lets me know I need to take it easy. If I don't listen to that warning, I will usually get worse malaise and PEM.

I thank my lucky stars I only get really bad PEM, that comes in the form of feeling just like the flu for 24 hours, about 3-4 times a year now. That kind of PEM don't usually put me in bed but it makes those 24 hours feel like a week!

 

[ljimbo423]

@Mary 's had good luck with BCAAs (Branched chain amino acids)

BCAA's also help me a lot. I take 13 grams a day and they make a big difference. Vitamin B-1 is another one that helps me a lot and I notice the increase in energy from it every day too.

Methylation supplements like methylfolate and methylcobalamin also make a noticeable difference in my energy. EDIT- Actually it's methylfolate that increases my energy. I don't notice any changes from the methylcobalamin but it's important to take it with methylfolate because they work together.

These all help to minimize or sometimes even reverse PEM for me.

 

[Sushi]

deciding to clean out a cupboard

Well, first question is: “What is cleaning out a cupboard?” That notion never even occurs to me! If it did, then that would be a sign that I might, just might have the energy to do step one… Of course that would leave a mess behind with everything dragged out onto the counter.

Who else here has had good, or bad, reactions to various substances

If I do get warning signs, and I often do, taking a tiny dose of edible medical cannabis will often stave off PEM. Note: I have a medical cannabis card.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I know it's not quite that simple, but that's the best way I could think of putting it...

Thats all about right...

The earliest warning PEM may ensue is the simple mere fact you considered it might be possible to clean out the cupboard.

I stare at some edgy mold, there creeping onto edges of the shower. This needs to go. But if I simply apply a substance over, say one small area, a manageable area- will I be able to return and remove the substance- in a timely manner? Or will I now be standing in my Best of Intentions.

The mold is still there.

And bleach is good for getting rid of that, but I can't tolerate smelling that. Further pauses.

Some of us may go lie down, only to leap up at the knowledge that the dust or mold or a detail- is still out there disturbing inner peace. That is sometimes a symptom we like to call Wired But Tired. Thrashing on the bed, trying to un wind enough to actually- fully pause. Fully rest.

PEM becomes clearer over time. There are the small, simple activities we can sometimes get away with.Then there are the things normal people do without so much as an afterthought. You are frequently reminded of how Special and Unique you are! Don't do normal things!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Well, first question is: “What is cleaning out a cupboard?” That notion never even occurs to me! If it did, then that would be a sign that I might, just might have the energy to do step one

What I find is- on that one day I feel rather Ok, after stars aligned, after I rested up enough- its all comes down to actually not doing anything much. Its our immediate desire to function like a normal person- that traps us in this chemical dump.

So on my one day experiment taking part of a Modafinil- I noted the kitchen floor needed to be mopped. Normally, I would immeidately realize this should happen- later, much later. I would not actually- start that.

But that day, I dropped to the floor and immediately started scrubbing 3 meters X 3 meters.

so between the vague headache, and the over-did that....I've yet to try that pill, again.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Warning signs? My physically-induced PEM had a consistent 24 hr delay; no early warning signs that I can remember.

typically, there is no warning on the day one feels possibly- a bit better.

Most of us have symptoms that start to warn us that we may end up in the roadside ditch..but its mostly the next day..

For me-its my right eye, its the tinnitus, its my brain crinkling,..its- then all the rest of it.

 

[Wishful]

... @Wishful, if I'm remembering right, had a good response to, of all things, simple cumin ....

Yup, cumin good. No, make that miraculous. 100% blocking for 3 days per half tsp. After a year or two of that, it seems to have cured my PEM and gotten rid of two other symptoms as well. A couple of days ago I scythed, pulled, raked and piled up a pretty big mound of thistles. That would pretty definitely have triggered PEM before, but now I remained PEM-free. I wish I knew how to make it work for others...

I never found anything else that reduced PEM. Lots of things--cinnamon included--make my general ME symptoms worse, but I never noticed any correlation for any herbs or whatever making PEM worse. I think careful observation of PEM severity and sensitivity to triggers is the key to finding something that works for you, or what you need to avoid. You have to know what level of PEM to expect from a given activity before you can notice whether it is higher or lower than expected. A digital PEM monitor, accurate to several significant figures, would sure be handy.

 

[Abrin]

If I do get warning signs, and I often do, taking a tiny dose of edible medical cannabis will often stave off PEM. Note: I have a medical cannabis card.

I was just wondering what you would consider a tiny dose to be? I've never tried edible cannabis to stave off PEM before even though I am in Canada. I wonder if a tincture would also work. That would definitely be more handy then having edibles around the house for me.

 

[dahsar]

This is all amazing thank you!

I get weakness in my arms and legs and I’m not sure if it’s PEM. I started taking Chinese skullcap to drink and I’ve seen some benefits!

I’ve been pacing a lot and resting. Getting better at it but these are all great answers.

Thank you so much guys xx

 

[Sushi]

I was just wondering what you would consider a tiny dose to be? I've never tried edible cannabis to stave off PEM before even though I am in Canada. I wonder if a tincture would also work. That would definitely be more handy then having edibles around the house for me.

I can give you my “dose” in mg of THC and maybe it will translate to a tincture. I take about 1 mg.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

The earliest warning PEM may ensue is the simple mere fact you considered it might be possible to clean out the cupboard.

Too, too true .... it's that inner little nagging bastardly voice that keeps pointing my attention to the myriad housekeeping tasks that have gone unaddressed, and unmourned, for the last, oh, about 9 years ....

Guilt. Merciless driver of all ill-considered undertakings ....

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I was just wondering what you would consider a tiny dose to be?

I use a 2.5 mg THC mint-they call that a microdose. It works quite nicely to take some edge off some inflammatory symptoms- I like one around 2 pm. It has zero CBD. I don't notice any mental effects at that dose. Usually I can think more clearly- after that.

Meanwhile, my husband brought home some free magazine that seems to be a Treatise on Medical Uses..of THC and CBD products, with ads. (but maybe it also costs $12.99, 15.99 Canada. (BHG)

But the articles inside were really well done, including what to be cautious about if your using other medications (how nice to know that)...articles about how to Try It Out when you never have. Etc Etc.; how to help your Pets out....

Wonder if this magazine could be ordered somehow: a next issue comes out after October 9,2020

NaturRX...Better Living Thru Cannabis

CBD Buyers Guide 133 products and tips.

They won't know about our PEM symptoms...but this document is certainly very useful for medical uses.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

NaturRX...Better Living Thru Cannabis

This seems to be a link to the NatuRx web site- with lots of info- perhaps the magazine can be obtained there..

I point this out for information purposes only.

https://thenaturx.com

 

[dahsar]

Just order BCAA powder!

The Chinese skullcap cap root in tea that I make gives me energy it’s really strange.

I should drink it every morning. Hmm.

Absolute Love everyone on this thread.