Wahls diet, mitochondria

[SickOfSickness]

it's the same active ingredient in bone marrow that you are looking for in SLO, its the alkylglycerol that stimulate the immune system and the producing of white blood cells. Look it up. They actually use one in place of the other for chemo treatments.

Oh good. However I think the bones would give us other minerals and more.

 

[undcvr]

Personally I am not so sure about that. That is a long ass amount of time to boil something just to get the nutrients out. Remember that in the end it is still a broth, a clear soup, so it is mostly still water. If you are thinking of getting your minerals from a broth its kinda like getting it from spring/mineral water, I wudnt hold my breath. I know that gelatin is anti viral cos of its high proline/lysine content and is a good source of protein but then so is collagen which is gelatin before our stomach acids digest it and collagen is avail as a supplement.

If you have a strong immune issue you want to address and you are taking bone marrow broth for it, preparation itself can be a hassle even if the shank/leg marrow bones themselves are very cheap. You might need several servings of broth a day to match a softgel of SLO. It might be something you want to try if bone marrow isn't working.

 

[Dreambirdie]

well in that case there is shark liver oil extract (goes back to organs again) and u want it standardised for alkylglycerols. It's not as troublesome as making bone marrow broth cos I have done this b4 too in the wintertime.

Hi undcvr. This sounds good in theory, but at this point with the nuclear disaster at Fukushima dumping hundreds of thousands of gallons of highly toxic radiation into the ocean every day, I would not want to eat shark liver oil.

Also hope you guys know that you get the most marrow from the hind legs of cows, its the yellow mushy oil in the middle of the bone. It's delicious. Most other parts of the bones don't have much marrow at all if you are buying it to make bone marrow broth. If you buy the shank with the bone in you can see it in the middle of the bone.

With the shank, It does not take that long to extract the marrow, you can see it dissolve as you cook it, the other elements that come out is the red marrow that float and cluster around. Maybe about 40 min for the size of a regular pot.

This sounds good. I will check it out.

 

[undcvr]

@Dreambirdie sorry to say this but your response doesn't sound good either. Do you know how much toxins, pesticides and herbicides our farm animals are exposed to ? And do you know where they all accumulate ? In the fats of any animal and humans bcos they are all oil soluble. This is a very big problem bcos alot of supplements that we need to help our immune system Are oils, Vitamin A, D, E, beta carotene, epa/dha, gla, coQ10. I mean you just can't run away from it. Much of it accumulates in the organs too and if you really want to get technical about this, much of it accumulates in the liver. Our livers are all toxic dumpsites of our bodies basically. The whole Paleo diet thing for CFS can go out the window just based on this fact alone.

Scandinavian Formulas harvests their SLO form green nurse sharks off the Norwegian coast I think, surely this is far enuf from Japan for you.

About highly toxic radiation, the Japanese have the most experience with this and have done alot of research, along with the Russians (Chernobyl) of course. Miso and Modafilan (a seaweed extract) have actually been shown to be effective against radioactive toxins.

 

[maddietod]

I don't know how to figure this out, but I wonder about equivalency of single-component extraction vs eating smaller amounts of a substance in a more natural form. Sometimes there's synergy with trace elements that we haven't noticed yet.

I'm just here for the discussion; these are all interesting ideas. And also, I'm following the entire dietary modification, to see what happens. I doubt I'll be able to figure out what's working. I already know that I feel better grain-free, beyond the benefit from gluten free. Even that could be a single sensitivity I never figured out. I'm finally off dairy, which also has known benefits for me. Will I feel another level better from greens, seaweed, and bone broth? Will it actually be a benefit of completely stopping sweets? If I feel better, it will be a while before I care.

 

[SickOfSickness]

@undcvr - Thanks, I am glad to read your thoughts on it.

I believe grass-fed beef shank is $4.95 a pound, or more. May be a good option for some who can afford it, but have less time and energy.

I would like to try it. Probably I will stick with cheaper grass-fed bones.

What I do is use a pressure cooker, so only need to cook bones a fraction of the time. However with the pressure cooker process, there are a few more possible mistakes I can make.

 

[undcvr]

I buy regular beef marrow bones here in the NYC area for about $1.95-$2.50/lbs. Just the bones no meat on it, sometimes it costs even less. I use Miso to flavor the broth and give it a base. I like to use lots of Cilantro with it cos it is supposed to be able to detox heavy metals.

 

[dannybex]

Personally I would avoid cilantro like the plague if one has heavy metal issues. It's at best a very weak chelator, which can lead to metals getting stirred around in the body, but not removed.

 

[maddietod]

Today's smoothie:
3c, 85g, arugula
2c, 300g, mixed blueberries, red fruits, and cantaloupe
2c water, hot because the fruit is frozen
1 packet electrolytes (I use ElectroMix)
a few drops of stevia.

This gives me my leafy greens and 2/3 of my colors. It makes one quart and I drink it throughout the day. I'm amazed at how much I like the taste. EDIT, I forgot that she says you have to eat 2 cups of leafy greens to count as one cup. Sometimes she drives me crazy!

Cocoa:
Soak brazil nuts overnight, blend with twice as much fresh water, strain, add stevia.
Dissolve 1 tablespoon cocoa powder in boiling water.
Add 1/2c of the brazil nut cream and 1/2c boiling water to the cocoa.
Add stevia to taste.

 

[L'engle]

@madietodd the cocoa sounds wonderful.

 

[Daffodil]

i think everyone with CFS has leaky gut. all my tests were negative too, until dr. demeirleir did another sCD14 test...

 

[maddietod]

I did a leaky gut test recently and it came up fine.

 

[undcvr]

"2/3 of my colors" ? lol I have no idea what that means. Do you use regular cocoa or maybe something exotic ? All the regular cocoa selling in my area has the fat content still in it and it is huge.

 

[Daffodil]

hi madie. did u ever have a soluble CD14 test?

 

[maddietod]

I just watched this:

It's a six part series, less than 10 minutes each, with Dr. Wahls talking about the diet.

At the end she says the men she works with eat 3 cups sulfur-rich green foods, 3 cups colorful foods (1each blue/black, red, orange/yellow), and 3 cups other non starchy vegetables. She says women often eat 6 total. So I'm going to stop worrying about the 3 vs 6 cups of leafy greens, and just see how much nutrition I can pack into a day.

I use Hershey's or Trader Joe's unsweetened cocoa powder, which have 1g fat per tablespoon.

I did the Genova intestinal permeability test, which measures 'lactulose and mannitol percent recovery'.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Glad to hear her talk about the difference btwn men and women, regarding amount of vegies needed.

I am doing fine with the diet as long as I get winter squash or jewel yams each day.

The bone broth, however, is not going to happen for me anymore. It made me so nauseas to eat that this week. I'm going to stick to organ meats, when I can get them, free range eggs and chickens, grass fed lamb and beef. That's good enough.

I really do love the collards lately. YUM!

 

[xchocoholic]

Lamb broth from whatever cut it is that has the bone in it is yummy. I get it at whole foods.

I'm assuming dehydrated foods are ok ... collards taste about the same as kale.

I'm not as particular about getting all my colors in each day. But my selection isn't as good as it could be.

I'm juicing romain, parsley, cilantro, peppers and some fruit. Then making green smoothies to get the rest.

Um, not that this is legal ... but I just started adding rice protein powder to my coffee.
YUM ...

 

[maddietod]

I get the colors mostly from frozen fruits, which I add to the greens in smoothies. It's more fruit than I used to eat, but since I'm off other sugars and eating almost no carbs, I seem to tolerate it fine. My tongue is a normal color! Amazing!

My 'cheat' today was a handful of dark chocolate covered almonds.

 

[xchocoholic]

Yum. I miss chocolate covered
nuts.

btw. I know ya'll have all heard this before but anyone with leaky gut should beware
of oxalates. Studies on autistic kids with leaky gut show some (all?) are prone
to having problems with high ox foods. Particularly after switching from the sad to a gfcf high ox diet. Many of us who went on the elimination diet added high ox foods without knowing possible consequences. I trust the yahoo trying low oxalate board for up to date info.

My cheats were bbq'd potato chips and junior mints. Both technically gf and grain free : )

 

[SickOfSickness]

btw. I know ya'll have all heard this before but anyone with leaky gut should beware
of oxalates. Studies on autistic kids with leaky gut show some (all?) are prone
to having problems with high ox foods. Particularly after switching from the sad to a gfcf high ox diet. Many of us who went on the elimination diet added high ox foods without knowing possible consequences. I trust the yahoo trying low oxalate board for up to date info.

Would it be obvious to me if oxalates were a problem? I am getting more oxalates than I did before.

It seems a lot more difficult to get the Wahls green leafy vegetables without going way over on oxalates. I don't think I could give up the berries, grapes, etc either.