Vitamin D messes up circadian rhythm

[Grigor]

Hi,

So I have a problem that when consuming vitamin D or even via light (vitamine D lamp) that my sleep gets messed up. I fall asleep around 18.00. Almost like I've been intoxicated. If I try to resist I manage to sleep about 4 hours in the night. If I give in I can forget about sleeping much altogether. Even if I try the vitamin D once it stays like this for months.

I'm a severe ME patient so I don't get enough sunlight but since I stopped the vitamin D my reactions to foods are through the roof. I need the vitamin D to stabilize my mast cells as I can't eat properly.

Anyways does anyone else have this as well? Have you found a solution? My docs are clueless what to do.

Thank you in advance!

 

[Bansaw]

Sorry to hear of your sleep issues. It really sucks when you can't sleep properly.
I don't know if this will help you or not, but what helped me was getting blue light-blocking goggles which I don about 7pm. Helps me fall asleep well. I also use Lavendar oil.

 

[Grigor]

Sorry to hear of your sleep issues. It really sucks when you can't sleep properly.
I don't know if this will help you or not, but what helped me was getting blue light-blocking goggles which I don about 7pm. Helps me fall asleep well. I also use Lavendar oil.

Thank you. The thing is I have zero issues falling asleep. Can barely keep my eyes open but I just wake up way too early.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Does the time of day you take the Vit D matter?

 

[Grigor]

Does the time of day you take the Vit D matter?

Sadly no.

 

[Wolfcub]

It's definitely the vitamin D itself having that effect is it @Grigor ? And not some other additive in the tablets?

Do you take a very high dose?

It can be a bit awkward, falling asleep at 6pm, but if by chance it starts to go dark then, where you are, then it sounds like that would be a natural circadian rhythm pattern in fact (just one we have learned to ignore, owing to electric lighting and social requirements) Out ancestors must have all gone to sleep when the sun went down.

If you could actually go to sleep then, would that work? You say you wake too early. Some people have been helped to fall back asleep again by taking a magnesium supplement in the middle of the night.

I don't know. It might not work for you to adjust your sleep time like that. But if nature won't let you keep your eyes open in the evening, it might be worth trying?

 

[Grigor]

It's definitely the vitamin D itself having that effect is it @Grigor ? And not some other additive in the tablets?

Do you take a very high dose?

It can be a bit awkward, falling asleep at 6pm, but if by chance it starts to go dark then, where you are, then it sounds like that would be a natural circadian rhythm pattern in fact (just one we have learned to ignore, owing to electric lighting and social requirements) Out ancestors must have all gone to sleep when the sun went down.

If you could actually go to sleep then, would that work? You say you wake too early. Some people have been helped to fall back asleep again by taking a magnesium supplement in the middle of the night.

I don't know. It might not work for you to adjust your sleep time like that. But if nature won't let you keep your eyes open in the evening, it might be worth trying?

It also happens with a vitamin D lamp. There are no additives there. I always have to take purest forms as I don't tolerate any additives.

I tried sleeping then but I end up not sleeping in the night. It's not helping my severe ME. I sadly don't tolerate magnesium either. Lol.

Without the vitamin D my circadian rhythm is ok.

 

[roller]

no vitamin d. no much sunlight.

this started for me when i took LACTULOSE.
at 16:30 - 17:00 (as soon as the light got some shades more dim) i started yawning heavily.

one could think that particularly vitamin D should "counteract" any daylight changes (if anything) its really weird. perhaps you can try some lactulose... sorry, if stupid... lol

otherwise, to fall asleep klosterfrau melissengeist (80% alcohol) works like a charme. if you wake up you could take a cup.

 

[roller]

i agree with @Wolfcub
it appears very "natural"

the alleged circadian rhythm might be something we want to have in order.

and its of course true, that enzymes and what not "react" on daylight, moonlight perhaps, sunlight... or are dependend on.

but what other life goes to bed at 09:00 pm and up at 07:00 am ?
nobody does. no cat, no dog, no mouse.
for all life, the night is a much interrupted space.
and a lot of everyone and everything sleeps (also) at daytime.
it just doesnt fit our schedule.

 

[Wolfcub]

to fall asleep klosterfrau melissengeist (80% alcohol) works like a charme.

@roller do you know, is klosterfrau melissengeist Lemon Balm? Or some other herbal tincture?

It also happens with a vitamin D lamp. There are no additives there. I always have to take purest forms as I don't tolerate any additives.

Right, I see. It's the actual vitamin D, nothing else. I have heard of some others with ME/CFS who find vit. D supplementation to sometimes have negative effects.

In 2018 (the first year my illness started) I am sure that supplementing with vit, D3 400iu daily was helping me. That was on top of sun exposure and we had lots of sun in UK during that summer. I kept supplementing through the winter and on and off during 2019.
Yet this year I have started not responding so well to it (same dose and a very good quality one) Recently I started a new regime of it for the winter months, and I am sure it is doing me no good at all suddenly.
But I am convinced it helped me when I had Covid in early April. (weird...)

 

[roller]

KLOSTERFRAU is pretty much plain alcohol (around 80%!) with some herbs, but a very old recipe still sold, strangely.

Ingredients: Distillate made from a mixture of up to: 536 mg melissa leaves, 714 mg alan rootstock, 714 mg angelica root, 714 mg ginger rootstock, 285 mg cloves, 285 mg galangal rootstock, 71 mg black pepper, 714 mg gentian root, 71 mg muscat seed, 714 mg orange peel, 321 mg cinnamon bark, 36 mg cinnamon blossoms, 10 mg cardamom seeds; distilling agent: Ethanol 96% (V/V) and purified water

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Klosterfrau-001119-Melissengeist/dp/B002GBIJWM

Spoiler: Bottle

 

[Wolfcub]

KLOSTERFRAU is pretty much plain alcohol (around 80%!) with some herbs, but a very old recipe still sold, strangely.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Klosterfrau-001119-Melissengeist/dp/B002GBIJWM

There is some good stuff in that recipe! Quite a few anti-inflammatory ingredients. I am tempted to buy some and try it!
(edit.....it is no longer available!! Maybe it will be stocked again sometime by Amazon?)

 

[roller]

in germany, i remember as a child that it was considered "good".
but ppl wouldnt take it since they were afraid to become (alcohol) depend on it...
i think its really a risk.

 

[PatJ]

I sadly don't tolerate magnesium either

Magnesium is necessary when supplementing vitamin D, and for some people, even when they get the vitamin D from a sun lamp or sunlight. Insomnia when taking vitamin D is usually a sign of induced magnesium deficiency: https://www.easy-immune-health.com/magnesium-and-vitamin-d.html

Some people can adjust to magnesium by starting very low and increasing slowly.

 

[Grigor]

Magnesium is necessary when supplementing vitamin D, and for some people, even when they get the vitamin D from a sun lamp or sunlight. Insomnia when taking vitamin D is usually a sign of induced magnesium deficiency: https://www.easy-immune-health.com/magnesium-and-vitamin-d.html

Some people can adjust to magnesium by starting very low and increasing slowly.

I put a bit of diluted magnesium oil on my skin but I'm probably deficient in many things.

Starting low is the only way possible.

The issue was however already present when I did tolerate magnesium so I doubt that's the problem.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Does the time of day you take the Vit D matter?

It does for me.

I was hyper-reactive to Vit D for several years, and when I started back up on it, got the same hyper-reactive result.

It wasn't til I found baby drops of Vit D on Amazon and started supplementing at levels low enough to be almost homeopathic, increasing slowly and carefully from there, and my then very large intake of mag glycinate for other ME issues probably helped as well.

But back to the point ..... if I take Vit D too late in the day, I have twitchy insomnia and can barely manage more than a couple of short naps during the night.

It took me a while to realize that I had to take Vit D very early in the day to avoid this effect ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I don't know if this will help you or not, but what helped me was getting blue light-blocking goggles which I don about 7pm. Helps me fall asleep well. I also use Lavendar oil.

I can vouch for that .... I've been using blue light blocking glasses (the kind that fit over my prescription glasses) for several years now, and they really make a difference ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

There is some good stuff in that recipe! Quite a few anti-inflammatory ingredients. I am tempted to buy some and try it!
(edit.....it is no longer available!! Maybe it will be stocked again sometime by Amazon?)

It's still available on Amazon, U.S. if you can order from the US Amazon instead of the UK Amazon..... it's $80 for the equivalent of 1 cup, $17 for a little over 3 ozs .....

The dosage is listed as 1 to 3 teaspoons in warm water as needed, so the 3 oz's should be good for anywhere from 54 down to 18 doses ....

 

[Pyrrhus]

Thank you. The thing is I have zero issues falling asleep. Can barely keep my eyes open but I just wake up way too early.

Sorry to hear about your sleep problems!
It's quite annoying that sleep problems can be so difficult to resolve and what works for one person doesn't work for another.

There is a short-term sleep medicine called Zaleplon/Sonata, which has effects that last only 3-4 hours. This is helpful for falling back asleep when you wake up in the middle of the night. Maybe something to ask your doctor about?