Kathevans
Senior Member
- Messages
- 691
- Location
- Boston, Massachusetts
@CCC I've been on and off carnitine (LCF) since last fall, on and off folate, on and off the Adenosyl/Methyl Oil--sometimes it was too intense and caused too much IBS. Not to mention up and down on many things. Each time I titrate up and down, I learn something more, perhaps something different because I may have added yet another mineral--which I've been working on for a couple of years now.
Bottom line is that I come back to things Freddd has said, that if you hit upon the most needed thing in your body, your symptoms will miraculously (to me) disappear. Maybe only for an hour or so. But if you pay attention, you'll gradually learn a thing or two and begin to address what you body wants in a particular moment--because let's face it, it DOES change.
I've been as high as 25mg of Folate /day and have taken as much as 1 1/2 of the Doctor's Data L-Carnitine tablets in divided doses, and as high as four squirts a day of a mix of Methyl and Adenosyl/Methyl Oil. But two major symptoms for me currently are IBS and insomnia, and what I've found is that when I'm awake in the middle of the night for those 2 or 3 or 4 hours, struggling to get my 4 or 5 hours of broken sleep, any one of the DLQ can send me back to sleep within a half hour or so--if I hit on the right one and haven't already overdone one of the others!
So I divide the LCF into 4 and take two of them a day, roughly 400mg, as so much of that pill gets lost inside the capsule and on the counter!--I'm down to 800-1600mcg of folate (right now high folate causes 24hr IBS; I just learned that and stopped and felt weird and miserable for a day or so); and 3-4 sprays of the oils.
Last night after sleeping for about 2-3 hours, I acted cautiously, and used the Methyl Oil--the most benign of the DLQ for me always--and yet stayed awake and continued to stay awake. Then, though it was only two hours later, I used the Ado/Methyl Oil--this has often been the case for me, even back when I was taking the 3,000mcg Seeking Health Adenosyl B12 sublinguals--that taking a bit of Ado would enable me to go back to sleep. And so it did, for another 2 hours of deep sleep.
Just to clarify as to my particular situation and why I understand via Freddd that this is what will work for me -- in his Symptoms List (and this is probably not the most recent one): http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ylation-and-healing.21725/page-24#post-875739 , while I have many many symptoms, I am most soundly in two categories in terms of the DLQ and my body's needs:
L-carnitine fumarate – AdoCbl – MeCbl – Metafolin
mild to extremely severe fatigue
continuous extremely severe fatigue
easy fatigability
severe abnormal muscle fatigue up to and including apparent paralysis leading to death
weakness
muscle pain especially around attachment points to bones
Eighteen severely tender muscle spots of FMS
And:
AdoCbl – L-carnitine fumarate
exercise debilitates for up to a week, making things much worse
accumulating muscle pains following exertion
sore muscles throughout body
lack of muscle recovery after exercise
High urinary MMA (though, past testing didn't show this as a problem)
The boldface is mine.
When I first developed a host of symptoms (rather than the isolated and seemingly unrelated ones I'd had for years), I told my doctor that whenever I lifted weights at the gym my muscles hurt --neck, arms, legs--and she said I was lifting too much weight. But, I told her, these were the same 10-20pound barbells I'd been lifting for a decade.
This was six months out from a cycle long term of antibiotics I'd taken for an infection on my foot. This was 20 years ago.
So maybe, this particular combo might be of help to focus on--depending on your symptoms. Since September the Carnitine has often been too intense, but I keep coming back to it. Most recently when I re-introduced it, I had gut cramps for the first day till my body readjusted to. I won't stop it again for a while, though I would always consider adjusting it up or down. Without it, I have no impulse to s-t-r-e-t-c-h! With it, stretching is glorious.
As I recall, @Johnmac used a liquid form of Carnitine and titrated up. It might be in one of these threads, but I'm not certain...
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/first-experience-with-l-carnitine-fumarate.35857/
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/carnitine-freddd-protocol.43666/
And a part of another thread:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-stages-of-methylation-and-healing.21725/page-21 (and the section I actually copied, which relates to your question:
So that we can compare carnitine doses across varieties I use the “carnitine” mass of 500mg rather than the fumarate mass of 855mg. Carnitine has 3 forms we may be dealing with and 2 main alternatives so we have to be able to compare amounts across multiple forms.
IF person has anxiety do microtitration, starting at 33mcg for 3 doses a day each time on empty stomach with the Jarrow Liquid Freebase carnitine, and increase 10% a day as tolerable.
IF person doesn’t have anxiety do a regular titration starting at perhaps 20mg (approx) for 3 doses per day. The first form to try is L carnitine fumarate such as Drs. Best, Jarrow, Swanson (all Sigma Tau carnitine) or other such vitamin brand. To start with add 20mg a day, either as another dose or another dose starting with the earliest one. Fumarate will be about 90% of people, ALCAR 10%. One will typically work like gangbusters, the other won’t and a mix doesn’t work either, typically. Try the other kind after reaching 125mg daily total with no effect, starting over on amount.
Good luck!
Bottom line is that I come back to things Freddd has said, that if you hit upon the most needed thing in your body, your symptoms will miraculously (to me) disappear. Maybe only for an hour or so. But if you pay attention, you'll gradually learn a thing or two and begin to address what you body wants in a particular moment--because let's face it, it DOES change.
I've been as high as 25mg of Folate /day and have taken as much as 1 1/2 of the Doctor's Data L-Carnitine tablets in divided doses, and as high as four squirts a day of a mix of Methyl and Adenosyl/Methyl Oil. But two major symptoms for me currently are IBS and insomnia, and what I've found is that when I'm awake in the middle of the night for those 2 or 3 or 4 hours, struggling to get my 4 or 5 hours of broken sleep, any one of the DLQ can send me back to sleep within a half hour or so--if I hit on the right one and haven't already overdone one of the others!
So I divide the LCF into 4 and take two of them a day, roughly 400mg, as so much of that pill gets lost inside the capsule and on the counter!--I'm down to 800-1600mcg of folate (right now high folate causes 24hr IBS; I just learned that and stopped and felt weird and miserable for a day or so); and 3-4 sprays of the oils.
Last night after sleeping for about 2-3 hours, I acted cautiously, and used the Methyl Oil--the most benign of the DLQ for me always--and yet stayed awake and continued to stay awake. Then, though it was only two hours later, I used the Ado/Methyl Oil--this has often been the case for me, even back when I was taking the 3,000mcg Seeking Health Adenosyl B12 sublinguals--that taking a bit of Ado would enable me to go back to sleep. And so it did, for another 2 hours of deep sleep.
Just to clarify as to my particular situation and why I understand via Freddd that this is what will work for me -- in his Symptoms List (and this is probably not the most recent one): http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ylation-and-healing.21725/page-24#post-875739 , while I have many many symptoms, I am most soundly in two categories in terms of the DLQ and my body's needs:
L-carnitine fumarate – AdoCbl – MeCbl – Metafolin
mild to extremely severe fatigue
continuous extremely severe fatigue
easy fatigability
severe abnormal muscle fatigue up to and including apparent paralysis leading to death
weakness
muscle pain especially around attachment points to bones
Eighteen severely tender muscle spots of FMS
And:
AdoCbl – L-carnitine fumarate
exercise debilitates for up to a week, making things much worse
accumulating muscle pains following exertion
sore muscles throughout body
lack of muscle recovery after exercise
High urinary MMA (though, past testing didn't show this as a problem)
The boldface is mine.
When I first developed a host of symptoms (rather than the isolated and seemingly unrelated ones I'd had for years), I told my doctor that whenever I lifted weights at the gym my muscles hurt --neck, arms, legs--and she said I was lifting too much weight. But, I told her, these were the same 10-20pound barbells I'd been lifting for a decade.
This was six months out from a cycle long term of antibiotics I'd taken for an infection on my foot. This was 20 years ago.
So maybe, this particular combo might be of help to focus on--depending on your symptoms. Since September the Carnitine has often been too intense, but I keep coming back to it. Most recently when I re-introduced it, I had gut cramps for the first day till my body readjusted to. I won't stop it again for a while, though I would always consider adjusting it up or down. Without it, I have no impulse to s-t-r-e-t-c-h! With it, stretching is glorious.
As I recall, @Johnmac used a liquid form of Carnitine and titrated up. It might be in one of these threads, but I'm not certain...
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/first-experience-with-l-carnitine-fumarate.35857/
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/carnitine-freddd-protocol.43666/
And a part of another thread:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-stages-of-methylation-and-healing.21725/page-21 (and the section I actually copied, which relates to your question:
So that we can compare carnitine doses across varieties I use the “carnitine” mass of 500mg rather than the fumarate mass of 855mg. Carnitine has 3 forms we may be dealing with and 2 main alternatives so we have to be able to compare amounts across multiple forms.
IF person has anxiety do microtitration, starting at 33mcg for 3 doses a day each time on empty stomach with the Jarrow Liquid Freebase carnitine, and increase 10% a day as tolerable.
IF person doesn’t have anxiety do a regular titration starting at perhaps 20mg (approx) for 3 doses per day. The first form to try is L carnitine fumarate such as Drs. Best, Jarrow, Swanson (all Sigma Tau carnitine) or other such vitamin brand. To start with add 20mg a day, either as another dose or another dose starting with the earliest one. Fumarate will be about 90% of people, ALCAR 10%. One will typically work like gangbusters, the other won’t and a mix doesn’t work either, typically. Try the other kind after reaching 125mg daily total with no effect, starting over on amount.
Good luck!
